Group: IPERNITY - Ambassador Images
August 2022 - News / Aktuelles / Actualités
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1. A look back
This group was created by Arlequin Photographie on February 1, 2021. The objective was to present the spectrum of our community's work in the greatest possible diversity to visitors. Therefore it was linked directly to the main menu of the landing page Explore. By definition, it is not another 'best of'- group, but is intended to show visitors "a selection of the most noteworthy photos of our members".
Arlequin Photographie has been very involved in setting up the group and the jury, as well as in the weekly jury meetings. In the past 18 months, under his leadership - with active support from his co-administrator raingirl - a very noteworthy collection of photos has been created. This has increased the attractiveness of ipernity for visitors. The objective was fully achieved.
Therefore, thanks to Arlequin Photographie for his initiative and engagement, but also to raingirl and the jury, as well as to all those who have contributed with their photos. In this context, the achievement of Rob Stamp should not go unmentioned, who succeeded in linking the group to the menu in such a way that the contributions are presented in random order when visitors access from the 'Explore'-menu. In this way, all contributions appear on an equal level, regardless of the time they were posted in the group.
Arlequin Photographie retired from the administration at the end of July 2022. At the handover he pointed out the following problems:
1. The jury has too few members. Not all of them can always be present.
2. The desired two-thirds majority for the inclusion of pictures was therefore not realisable.
3. The intended rotation of the jury members was also not feasible.
4. Discord as a voting tool is too cumbersome, unmanageable and prone to errors.
5. The voting results were often not well founded for the reasons mentioned.
....................................................................................................................................
2. Status as of August 1, 2022
(in brackets as of November 1, 2021 = half-time, figures provided by raingirl)
Number of group members.......... 82 (78)
Postings...................................... 928 (566)
Postings from group members... 376 (232)
Postings from non-members...... 552 (334)
The group has barely expanded further in terms of number of members. In terms of contributions, the growth momentum has slowed down by about 20% in the second half of the year. Neither of these is a problem in itself, because the group's objective - to present the work of our community - is being fully met.
It is rather thought-provoking that in the past 9 months only half of the group members (44) have been active. Only 144 new contributions came from them. In the meantime, 37 group members are inactive. Therefore, the following problem has to be added:
→ 6. The vividness of the group has diminished.
Furthermore, it was noticed that the rule of not being allowed to suggest one's own works is circumvented in several cases. Buddy groups have been formed to suggest each other's images. This problem affects more than a quarter of the proposals. It causes distortions in the evaluation.
→ 7. The rule 'no own suggestions' is circumvented. This causes distortions in the evaluation.
Currently, 3 proposals per week are allowed (156 per year). Only professionals, pensioners or people who have a lot of leisure time for other reasons can produce such a number of really excellent photos. Working people, single parents or people with little free time, reach the limit of what is possible with just one picture per week. They are disadvantaged by such a high number.
In the build-up phase, it made sense to accept this disadvantage. Because it was important to quickly provide the group with sufficient volume. In the meantime, however, the group is large enough, so that a less discriminatory limit should be set. This would also relieve the burden on the jury, because it would receive better presorted proposals from the multi-submitters.
→ 8. The current number of proposals allowed (3 per week) disadvantages people with little free time and burdens the jury.
Until now, it was important to get as many posts as possible to be able to present an adequate portfolio to visitors. In the meantime, however, we are approaching the 1000 post mark. In order to view them completely, a visitor needs 30 to 90 minutes (with 2-5 seconds of viewing time). Even with good will, this is at the limit of what is possible. That's why older posts are hardly ever viewed.
→ 9. More than 1000 pictures in the group are not necessary to achieve the group's objective. However, permanent updating would be desirable to further improve the outward impression.
....................................................................................................................................
3. Further steps & solutions
The group will be administered by Bergfex and raingirl from now on. For the problems mentioned, possible solutions are presentated below.
Click on the links to get more information and to read the arguments:
Item ❶: Reduced workload due to Poll Unit and change of the rating period to once a month. ✅
Item ❷: The acceptance level of 50% should be kept until experience with the revisions is available. ✅
Item ❸: This matter should be reviewed in 6 months' time. ✅
Item ❹: A new and more efficient voting tool should be introduced. ✅
Item ❺: Voting results will become more reliable by applying Poll Unit. ✅
Item ❻: An incentive 'Picture of the Month' could be created. ⛔️dropped
Item ❼: The rule 'no own suggestions' should be reconsidered. ✅ Modified
Item ❽: The limit should be set at 1 proposal per 14 days. ✅ Modified: 1 per week
Item ❾: The group size should be limited to 1000 posts. The oldest should be replaced by newer ones. ⭕pending
....................................................................................................................................
If anyone thinks of any other issues that need to be clarified, feel free to mention them in a comment below this thread.
This group was created by Arlequin Photographie on February 1, 2021. The objective was to present the spectrum of our community's work in the greatest possible diversity to visitors. Therefore it was linked directly to the main menu of the landing page Explore. By definition, it is not another 'best of'- group, but is intended to show visitors "a selection of the most noteworthy photos of our members".
Arlequin Photographie has been very involved in setting up the group and the jury, as well as in the weekly jury meetings. In the past 18 months, under his leadership - with active support from his co-administrator raingirl - a very noteworthy collection of photos has been created. This has increased the attractiveness of ipernity for visitors. The objective was fully achieved.
Therefore, thanks to Arlequin Photographie for his initiative and engagement, but also to raingirl and the jury, as well as to all those who have contributed with their photos. In this context, the achievement of Rob Stamp should not go unmentioned, who succeeded in linking the group to the menu in such a way that the contributions are presented in random order when visitors access from the 'Explore'-menu. In this way, all contributions appear on an equal level, regardless of the time they were posted in the group.
Arlequin Photographie retired from the administration at the end of July 2022. At the handover he pointed out the following problems:
2. The desired two-thirds majority for the inclusion of pictures was therefore not realisable.
3. The intended rotation of the jury members was also not feasible.
4. Discord as a voting tool is too cumbersome, unmanageable and prone to errors.
5. The voting results were often not well founded for the reasons mentioned.
....................................................................................................................................
2. Status as of August 1, 2022
(in brackets as of November 1, 2021 = half-time, figures provided by raingirl)
Number of group members.......... 82 (78)
Postings...................................... 928 (566)
Postings from group members... 376 (232)
Postings from non-members...... 552 (334)
The group has barely expanded further in terms of number of members. In terms of contributions, the growth momentum has slowed down by about 20% in the second half of the year. Neither of these is a problem in itself, because the group's objective - to present the work of our community - is being fully met.
It is rather thought-provoking that in the past 9 months only half of the group members (44) have been active. Only 144 new contributions came from them. In the meantime, 37 group members are inactive. Therefore, the following problem has to be added:
Furthermore, it was noticed that the rule of not being allowed to suggest one's own works is circumvented in several cases. Buddy groups have been formed to suggest each other's images. This problem affects more than a quarter of the proposals. It causes distortions in the evaluation.
Currently, 3 proposals per week are allowed (156 per year). Only professionals, pensioners or people who have a lot of leisure time for other reasons can produce such a number of really excellent photos. Working people, single parents or people with little free time, reach the limit of what is possible with just one picture per week. They are disadvantaged by such a high number.
In the build-up phase, it made sense to accept this disadvantage. Because it was important to quickly provide the group with sufficient volume. In the meantime, however, the group is large enough, so that a less discriminatory limit should be set. This would also relieve the burden on the jury, because it would receive better presorted proposals from the multi-submitters.
Until now, it was important to get as many posts as possible to be able to present an adequate portfolio to visitors. In the meantime, however, we are approaching the 1000 post mark. In order to view them completely, a visitor needs 30 to 90 minutes (with 2-5 seconds of viewing time). Even with good will, this is at the limit of what is possible. That's why older posts are hardly ever viewed.
....................................................................................................................................
3. Further steps & solutions
The group will be administered by Bergfex and raingirl from now on. For the problems mentioned, possible solutions are presentated below.
Click on the links to get more information and to read the arguments:
Item ❶: Reduced workload due to Poll Unit and change of the rating period to once a month. ✅
Item ❷: The acceptance level of 50% should be kept until experience with the revisions is available. ✅
Item ❸: This matter should be reviewed in 6 months' time. ✅
Item ❹: A new and more efficient voting tool should be introduced. ✅
Item ❺: Voting results will become more reliable by applying Poll Unit. ✅
Item ❻: An incentive 'Picture of the Month' could be created. ⛔️
Item ❼: The rule 'no own suggestions' should be reconsidered. ✅ Modified
Item ❽: The limit should be set at 1 proposal per 14 days. ✅ Modified: 1 per week
Item ❾: The group size should be limited to 1000 posts. The oldest should be replaced by newer ones. ⭕
....................................................................................................................................
If anyone thinks of any other issues that need to be clarified, feel free to mention them in a comment below this thread.
The topic of this discussion has been edited by Bergfex 20 months ago.
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Re: the distinction between own and third-party proposals:
Usually, for submitted posts, between each photo and the moderation options ("Accept/Refuse/Decide later"), you can see who proposed it (user ID of the proposing member) and when.
If a member proposes his/her own picture, you can read the following entry at said place:
"proposed (for example) 1 hour ago
by the owner"
Are these data not displayed, although the settings for this group seem to be set to review the posts?
Bergfex club has repliedEine weitergehende Behandlung der Vorschläge findet bisher nicht statt.
Theoretisch wäre es also möglich, dass wenige aktive Vorschlagende mit kleinem Freundeskreis immer dieselben Fotografen/innen vorschlagen. Und das ist nicht nur Theorie, sondern findet auch statt. Es gibt solche auffälligen Häufungen.
Bergfex clubItem ❼: Idea for a solution, triggered by a private e-mail from the jury member Roger (Grisly):
In the case of several proposals concerning pictures by the same photographer, only the picture that is most worth seeing in the opinion of the jury will be included in the group.
This simple measure prevents distorting clusters from forming (1). In addition, the group objective of achieving a high degree of diversity is met more closely (2). And last, but not least, there isn't any longer the need to distinguish between self-proposals and proposals of others (3).
Great. So, according to that, it works in this group like in other groups.
Re: your last paragraph:
That's absolutely true, and I'm aware of it, which keeps me trying as hard as I can to achieve balance.
Due to various circumstances, this is by no means always successful. Some active photographers, for example, keep posting excellent contributions, but your proposed solution triggered by Roger (Grisly) sounds promising and looks like a workable solution to this problem as well. I'm sincerely happy about this result.
Dear admins and jury, you are doing a fabulous work!
Please carry on like this!
raingirl clubRESTRICTIONS:
The restriction of one photo per week does NOT apply to suggestions, it only applies to acceptence into a group.
You may think this otherwise, but there is a difference between a group that has moderation - that is, the photos going in a group are first checked by the administrators - and one where a group member can simply add their photo to the group and the photo goes into the group immediately. Because the Ambassador group is moderated, one can suggest as many photos as one wishes. I've checked this and I've confirmed this with Rob.
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SELF-PROPOSALS:
Andreas and myself always deleted any suggestions of a photographer's own photo so they didn't go to jury. Happily the programming does show the needed information and so this is a very simple task.
I do not have a strong opinion either way about self proposals. I only have the one point about being able to vote on one's own photo (as one has been able to in the past) no matter which way it is decided.
[Note to Bergfex - we need to discuss how we handle when/if one of our own photos, as admins of the group is suggested, there is a nuance I'll note to you in a message]
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PROPOSED SOLUTION FOR ITEM 7:
I agree with only accepting only the top voted photo per person per jury voting session. I think it is a simple and elegant solution.