Group: Ipernity Members Association Project


Discussion of Survey Results


StoneRoad2013
By A StoneRoad2013 club
February 17, 2017 - 129 comments - 2 986 visits- Permalink

English:
Thread for questions about, and discussion of the survey results.
These are reproduced as below.

Survey Results: 1443 members participated with 97% expressing a desire for Ipernity to be saved with an overwhelming number expressing a willingness to join a membership association.
Almost 2/3 of the respondents offered to participate in a CrowdFund campaign. When the answers for “other” are excluded, the amount offered was 34,595€.
In addition, 2/3 of the respondents agreed to an annual membership fee of 50€ or above. As a result, the IMA annual fee will be 50€, which is competitive with other photo sharing sites and will offer a sustainable, viable long-term future for the Ipernity platform.


Last, based on the survey results, the percentage of people use the Ipernity platform as follows:

98.4%: Photo Sharing
56.5%: Comments/Interaction
51.4%: Group Participation
26.2%: Article/Blog Writing
22.4%: Video Sharing
19.2%: Social Media
13.4%: Audio/Music Sharing

Note: Answers for “All of the Above” were added to the totals for each of the categories.

Out of the 1443 respondents, 70.3% were Club Members and 29.7% were non-Club Members.

Thanks to William Sutherland for the information.
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German translation:

Die Umfrage ist abgeschlossen. 1443 Mitglieder haben teilgenommen wobei 97% den Wunsch geäußert haben, dass Ipernity erhalten bleibt und eine überwältigende die Absicht hat, der "Ipernity Members Association" beizutreten. Fast 2/3 der Antwortenden wollen sich an der Spendenaktion beteiligen. Ohne Berücksichtigung der Antwort "Anderer Betrag" war der durchschnittliche angebotene Betrag 34,595 €. 2/3 der Antwortenden waren für einen Mitgliedsbeitrag von 50 € oder mehr. Der zukünftige Beitrag wird also voraussichtlich 50€ pro Jahr betragen, was wettbewerbsfähig mit anderen Foto-Plattformen ist und einen nachhaltigen und langfristigen Betrieb der Plattform sicherstellen wird.

Hier noch die prozentualen Nutzungszahlen:

98.4%: Photo Sharing / Fotos teilen
56.5%: Comments/Interaction / Kommentieren/Dialog
51.4%: Group Participation / Teilnahme an Gruppen
26.2%: Article/Blog Writing / Artikel schreiben
22.4%: Video Sharing / Videos teilen
19.2%: Social Media / Soziale Medien
13.4%: Audio/Music Sharing / Musik teilen

Die Antwort "Alle" wurde entsprechend zugeordnet

Von den 1443 Antwortenden waren 70,3% Club Mitglieder und 29,7% Nicht-Mitglieder.

Danke an William Southerland für die Infos

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French Translation

Résultats du sondage :

1443 membres ont participé au sondage, parmi lesquels 97% ont exprimé le souhait qu'Ipernity soit sauvegardé, une large majorité étant prête à adhérer à l'Association des Membres.
Près des 2/3 des sondés se disent également prêts à participer au financement participatif de l'Association : sans tenir compte des réponses "Autre", le montant offert se monte à 34,595€.
Par ailleurs, 2/3 des sondés sont d'accord pour cotiser à hauteur d'un montant de 50€ ou plus.

En conséquence le montant de l'adhésion à l'Association est fixé à 50€, ce qui reste compétitif avec celui des autres sites de partage de photos et permettra d'offrir un avenir pérenne et viable à long terme à la plate-forme Ipernity.

Par ailleurs, les résultats du sondage permettent d'établir que les membres d'Ipernity utilisent le site aux fins suivantes :

98.4%: Partage de photos
56.5%: Commentaires/Interactivité
51.4%: Participation aux groupes
26.2%: Rédaction d'articles et de blog
22.4%: Partage de vidéos
19.2%: Réseau social
13,4%: Partage de musique

Note: les réponses pour "Tous les services" ont été ajoutées aux totaux pour chacune des catégories.

Sur les 1443 répondants, 70,3% sont des membres du Club et 29,7% ne sont pas membres du Club.

Merci à William Sutherland pour ces résultats.

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LOS RESULTADOS DEL ESTUDIO

1443 miembros participaron en el estudio, de los cuales el 97% expresó el deseo qu'Ipernity se guarda, una gran mayoría está listo para unirse a la Asociación de Miembros.
Casi 2/3 de los encuestados dicen que también están dispuestos a participar en la Asociación de crowdfunding: independientemente de las respuestas "Otros", la cantidad ofrecida asciende a € 34.595.
Además, 2/3 de los encuestados acordaron aportar hasta un importe de € 50 o más.

En consecuencia, la cuota para ser miembro de la Asociación es de 50 €, que es competitivo con el de otros sitios para compartir fotos y proporcionarán un futuro sostenible y viable a largo plazo a la plataforma Ipernity .

Por otra parte, los resultados de la encuesta demuestra que los miembros de Ipernity utilizar el sitio para:

98,4%: comparte fotos
56,5%: Comentarios / Interactividad
51,4%: Participación en grupos
26,2%: La redacción de artículos y el blog
22,4%: Compartir vídeos
19,2%: Red social
13,4%: Compartir música

Nota: Las respuestas a "Todos los servicios" se han añadido a los totales de cada categoría.

De los 1443 encuestados:

70,3% son miembros del Club
29,7% no son miembros del Club.

Thanks Christine for the translation
------------------------------------------------------------------

I add a translation into Esperanto - Mi aldonas tradukon al Esperanto:

Rezultoj de la retenketo: 1443 ipernitanoj partoprenis; 97% deziras ke Ipernity estu savita kaj ega kvanto deklaras ke ili ŝatas aliĝi asocion de membroj.

Preskaŭ 2/3 de la respondintoj partoprenus amasmonkolektadon. La meznombra sumo (sen konsidero de tiuj kiuj respondis "alia") estas po 34,595€.

Aldone, 2/3 de la respondintoj konsentas pri jara membra kotizo de 50 € aŭ pli. Do, la jara kotizo de IMA estos 50€, kiu estas komparebla kun aliaj retpaĝaroj por komunigo de fotoj kaj oferos elteneblan estontecon al la strukturo de Ipernity.

Fine, base de la rezultoj de la enketo, la procentoj de la uzoceloj de Ipernity estas:

98.4%: komunigo de fotoj
56.5%: komentoj / interagoj
51.4%: partoprenado al grupoj
26.2%: skribado de artikoloj / blogoj
22.4%: komunigo de videaĵoj
19.2%: sociala reto
13.4%: komunigo de aŭdiaĵoj / muzikaĵoj

Noto. La respondoj "ĉiuj el la elektoj" estis aldonitaj al la totaloj de ĉiu kategorio.

El la 1443 respondintoj, 70.3% estis Klubanoj kaj 29.7% estis ne-Klubanoj.

Thanks for the translation Raffaele

The topic of this discussion has been edited by Eric Desjours 2 weeks ago.

129 comments - The latest ones
 Treasa Ui Cionaodha
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
So as I figure the numbers the total income expected is
€48,100 club fee 2/3 @ €50
€34,595 crowdfunding
€82,695 Total revenue from above
1
Next we need to know is Income from other sources such as sponsorship's, investors, shareholders and any other income source.
2
The Total income figure and then Expenditure Costs
So the provision of a complete up to date balance sheet is required and essential in my opinion.

So as far as I know it is the responsibility of the Ipernity Team to supply all members with this Balance sheet.

I was a maybe on the crowdfunding option but I would not contribute to this method of encouraging increased revenue until I know that the overall situation of the viability of IP surviving until I know the full running costs of keeping IP as a viable business.

My understanding any club association are usually are Obliged to communicate all revenue information. ( Well that my understanding of how clubs a associations work)
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Tess,

We will be posting something on the direct costs of running Ipernity. Also please be aware, consistent with the approach followed by Blip Future CIC to save Blip Foto, none of the crowdfunding revenue will be spent on Ipernity unless our proposal is formally accepted by Ipernity S.A. and its shareholders. If our proposal is not accepted, all money would be returned to the contributors. If our proposal is accepted, the money would be immediately used to pay the direct costs of maintaining this site and future costs (if anything is left over).
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Thanks you for your response. And thank you for the information you will post up the running costs of Ipernity S.A. I need to emphasis the importance of providing the Balance Sheet essentially first over any other information that you will provide in the future on goings of how IMA will progress.
May I take this opportunity to acknowledge to you William you hard work to progress IP to its present position. Much appreciated.
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
Thank you for your comment, Beyond-Zero.

For the IMA to be legally registered, bylaws have to be submitted. The bylaws will be made available when finalized after all reviews have been complete and French legal requirements satisfied (which I imagine will be in the next couple of days and in French, English, and German). The process included made revisions and reviews. One of the requirements is insertion of the annual membership fee. With 2/3 of people supporting this amount or higher, it was the most popular and reasonable number. In effect, it was voted for and approved by the survey.

Elections will be a part of IMA. However, to initiate and complete the process of saving Ipernity in a short time-frame, there had to be a group of founders who began the process. Next, when Ipernity is a membership run site, proposals will be voted on by the paying members.

Last, payment methods will be secure and under https protocol and consistent with every reputable site that conducts such transactions.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
 Amelia Heath
Amelia Heath club
Some progress is being made. Hopefully the stalwarts of the IMA are successful, and that the loyal members of Ipernity remain. Thank you for all the hard work that is being done on everyone's behalf. Still many hoops to jump through.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
 Andrea Riberti
Andrea Riberti club
Thank you! You really did a great job.. I just wonder something about the annual fee and sorry if you already wrote about it somewhere. For central and northern European users (and this is my case), 50 Euro are sure affordable. But what about the eastern and southern Countries? The purchasing power isn't the same everywhere and after having stabilised IP I thing that we will have to thing about it to not loose the richness of the different cultures.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to Andrea Riberti club
In addition, 2/3 of the respondents agreed to an annual membership fee of 50€ or above. As a result, the IMA annual fee will be 50€, which is competitive with other photo sharing sites and will offer a sustainable, viable long-term future for the Ipernity platform.
The above statement sounds as if it is going to be a mandatory fee of €50 per year.
You are right with your concerns of excluding people who live countries that are not as affluent as other counties where the average income per household is so low as to exclude them from becoming club members. I hope this will not be the case when all is finalized by the IMA / IP
3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Fees should be based on space used, not a flat undue burden.... I used less than 5GB of space here for my photos and spend less than 5hrs. a week mulling around on the site but for that little bit of activity, IMA will be asking me to pay $53+ .... That's ridiculous! And not to mention unfair! 1GB of storage online goes for $1.... THAT is the market rate, not what IMA is proposing as the fee for use of this site. I belong to a file sharing site where, for that amt. of money I'd have 50GB of space --- and yes, they have forums and tech. staff, etc.

While I applaud them for saving the site, don't forget that pricing people out will turn this into a photo sharing site for the affluent. It will lose all the richness & diversity being celebrated.

I'm not complaining about that fee because I can't afford it, but because it is unfair and will prove to be a burden for many.

And before people tell me to just leave if I don't like it, they should consider how many will indeed leave not just because of the fee but because of the attitude of "find a way to pay or leave".... That is not only cruel, it's ignorant.... Many people spent years making a home on this site --- and I'm not considering free accts., but paid "club" memberships --- only to be told to hit the bricks when they find the proposed usage fee to be unfair. Instead of telling people to leave for free sites if they can't afford the preposterous fee, how about figuring out how to make it more fair & affordable. You won't win members over with "if you can't afford it, there are free sites for you".... It's nice that people can afford to be ripped off.... But not everyone is in the same position or station in life.... And not everyone is willing to allow themselves to be ripped off on principle if not on financial basis.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to Fizgig
You said
"While I applaud them for saving the site, don't forget that pricing people out will turn this into a photo sharing site for the affluent. It will lose all the richness & diversity being celebrated.

I'm not complaining about that fee because I can't afford it, but because it is unfair and will prove to be a burden for many.

And before people tell me to just leave if I don't like it, they should consider how many will indeed leave not just because of the fee but because of the attitude of "find a way to pay or leave".... That is not only cruel, it's ignorant.... Many people spent years making a home on this site --- and I'm not considering free accts., but paid "club" memberships --- only to be told to hit the bricks when they find the proposed usage fee to be unfair and will prove to be a burden for many.

I think that you have made a great argument as above. If this €50 minimum to stay in ipernity is enforced and is made mandatory the end result is to exclude the "less well off" which you said is cruel and unfair which I fully agree with. Then I as a paying club member who can afford the €50 and more will leave Ipernity as a matter of principle and in support of the less well off.
3 years ago.
 Smiley Derleth
Smiley Derleth club
Yes, thank you. This site matters.
3 years ago.
 Roger (Grisly)
Roger (Grisly) club
Great job so far by all concerned, Ipernity is worth saving.
3 years ago.
 Valfal
Valfal club
My biggest thanks to William and all who have worked to make it possible for ipernity to survive! I hope to see more information about IMA very soon.

I like the thoughtful suggestion made by Andrea Riberti regarding annual fees. 50 Euros is a reasonable price for me, but I know people living in places like South Africa have a cost of living so high that they would find it impossible to be members of ipernity. A "sliding fee" scale would be an idea worth considering. :-)
3 years ago.
Boarischa Krautmo club
has replied to Valfal club
I agree.
3 years ago.
LutzP club
has replied to Valfal club
...good point Val, but let us fix first things first and get the new organization on the road.
3 years ago.
 L. L. Wall
L. L. Wall club
I do closely watch my expenditures, but on overview: paying about $1.00 per week to view great photos (and communicate with photographers worldwide) is a bargain.
3 years ago.
 Jaap van 't Veen
Jaap van 't Veen club
Thanks a lot to all who are trying to save IP and it looks more and more that they will succeed !!
GREAT job.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
 Anne H
Anne H club
THANKS A LOT to all for sharing these results, and THANKS to those who expressed their willingness to save IP.
About the association, my 2 cents:
2 documents need to be drafted: "statuts" ("acts of association", also translated as "bylaws"), i.e. the document that will be registered in Préfecture, and "règlement intérieur", which can be amended. Obviously annual fees, scale fees if any... belong to the second one, whereas they may be revised annually or whenever needed.
Sorry, I won't be able to elaborate too much - my computer is temporarily out of order and I am using a tablet to write this - not the best device. But I am happy to see light at the end of the tunnel.
3 years ago.
 Angelofruhr
Angelofruhr club
Herzlichen Dank für die Nachricht, auch für die deutsche Übersetzung!! :-)
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
To all,

The fee inserted in the bylaws to satisfy French law can always be reviewed in the future. However, at this time, a realistic number supported by a super majority was needed especially so Ipernity S.A.can find reason to accept our proposal. L.L. Wall makes a good point -- the fee is roughly $1 per week. A lot of people spend more than that per day on a cup of coffee and so I don't agree that it will be an undue burden on Eastern European, African and South American countries.

I've been to Brazil and South Africa as well as Russia and Belarus and few items there are less than $1. I think a lot of notions that countries like these are some how less developed, are deprived of what we (the West) have, and badly impoverished is more a stereotype from the past (sure when I was in the USSR you could get a $100 winter coat for less than a $1 under their price controls resulting in long waits and significant shortages, but this is the past!) than reality.
3 years ago.
Anne H club
has replied to William Sutherland club
William, thank you for all your efforts.
Again, according to French law, it is not required to insert the amount(s) of the fee(s) in the bylaws. What needs to be inserted is the principle of paying a fee. Bylaws ("statuts") may also mention different categories of members, or even mention that certain members are exempt from paying a fee. This is in general terms of course, not specifically about IMA.
While we all sadly know that minimum / average wage differences across Europe are real - not to speak about the rest of the world - I also recognise that a flat-rate fee or an average fee are easier to handle at this stage of the project, and easier to "sell" to Ipernity SA, too.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Marko Novosel club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Good points,very realistic.
There is also one thing friends can do and help other people from various countries who have minimum wage is to give a gift of subscription.
3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to William Sutherland club
In addition, 2/3 of the respondents agreed to an annual membership fee of 50€ or above. As a result, the IMA annual fee will be 50€, which is competitive with other photo sharing sites and will offer a sustainable, viable long-term future for the Ipernity platform.

Could you please clarify if the 50€ will be mandatory on all members in the future. So there is a possibility that there will be no non paying members.
3 years ago.
Jaap van 't Veen club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Assuming 'they' are already payimg member of Ipernity it is 'just' 25 euro's more for a year, which is about 50 cents a week !!
3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to William Sutherland club
I have to say I disagree with your "A lot of people spend more than that per day on a cup of coffee and so I don't agree that it will be an undue burden on Eastern European, African and South American countries. "
I do not live a what would be considered a "third world" country.
I live in Dublin City Ireland and know people who are so poor they could not afford this annual €50 fee. Not to personalize but circumstances like job losses (and we have had so much of that )have caused people struggling to feed themselves and children and depend on other family and friends.
I have been to California and saw the terrible poverty suffered by people on the outskirts of the towns of California.
3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Tess,

I realize there are circumstances that may create a hardship. Marko made a good suggestion about friends helping each other. In addition, Lutz's success group could be restarted with people sponsoring the top three winners of photo contests or using some other formula to assist those who have hardship. I sponsored a member before and would be more than willing to do so again.

At the same time, we need a firm figure to present to Ipernity S.A. If we are ambiguous or say we'll keep the membership fee the same, they'll conclude it's not feasible to save Ipernity, our proposal will be rejected and the site will be shutdown.

In fact, it's more important than ever that we succeed since sites like Ipernity continue to disappear. Autofantasia just pointed out that Photoblur will be shutting down for financial reasons further proof a realistic fee structure is needed. If we stick together, help each other out, sponsor members in Lutz's group, the 50€ figure will be a success with minimal hardship.
3 years ago.
Stormlizard club
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
I think you should take in mind Tess that many of us enthusiastic members did not join Ipernity as a pure Photo sharing platform but because of the Diverse nature of Ipernity which is why I and many others refer to the site as being Unique.

I am willing to pay a higher fee, at the same time I also support one idea put forward about the Ipenity Membership fee could be a three stage system, Junior, Member and Club member with some form of graduated space allowance on the servers.
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
Thank you Anne for your input. The specific amount will not be included in the bylaws but still must be presented to Ipernity S.A. as part of the proposal for viability reasons.
3 years ago.
Anne H club
has replied to William Sutherland club
I concur 100%. Of course it *must* be presented.
I was also thinking of including a "benefactor member" status but then, Ipernity SA would ask for an estimate number of BMs and this was not an item in the survey... just thinking aloud...
3 years ago.
 John Sheldon
John Sheldon club
Good news! Many thanks to all those putting so much effort into this initiative.
3 years ago.
 Eclectic House
Eclectic House
If the cost of membership is going to be 50euros, that puts it out of my budget. Currently that's about $53 US, and when I was looking at other photo hosts recently, most of them had $30 memberships. I might have reluctantly gone to $40 because I have so many photos already on Ipernity, but $53 just is too much for me.

I found Ipernity's photo sharing on other sites inconvenient, with having to get the code for each image separately, but I put up with it because the price was good. It's nice to see the albums & use the forums, but sharing elsewhere is more important to me.

For me, it's not worth paying $53 a year for the current service.

I will wait, and hope that this decision is not set in stone and will be reevaluated.
3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to Eclectic House
Eclectic,

If the site is saved and Lutz's group is back up, please be sure to Ipermail me for the link. I'm confident there will again be a pool of members willing to provide sponsorships and assistance.
3 years ago.
raingirl club
has replied to William Sutherland club
First, William, thanks for all your work on this!

Thank you for mentioning sponsorships and assistance for people unable to afford the 50 euro cost. I am going to mention that in reply to the previous comments about diversity on the site. I have never heard of Lutz's group, so I hope that sponsorships/assistance availability (and requests to help fund them) will be prominent so everyone will know about them.

I'm very excited about this working! Crossing fingers and toes that Ipernity S.A. will go for it.

peace,
laura
3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to Eclectic House
I feel you will not be alone in your ability to pay double the club fee. William has been asked by many to rethink that the only way forward is to make the €50 fee mandatory. Mia will loose so many members and therefor not enough members to make this site viable. Just my opinion.
3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to raingirl club
Thank you Laura! The group is Win a Club Membership! Right now it is suspended since Ipernity's future is uncertain. It can be restarted at a moment's notice.
3 years ago.
Bergfex club
has replied to Eclectic House
Most of them had 30€ meberships . . . ?
Which one?
www.fotocommunity.de costs up from 4€/month = 48€/Year (basic account)
www.flickr.com costs 49,99USD/year (pro account)
3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to Bergfex club
You cannot, in all fairness, include Flickr in that list because the free accts. have the same rights as paid ones. There is no measurable benefit to paying the membership fee --- the owners of the site (for the moment) don't care about member or non-member input into runnings of the site.

One you can add to the list, though.... 23HQ which charges $20/yr. for the same benefits this site has --- unlimited uploads, groups, etc. It may not be as well developed a platform currently, but there is far more hope for it than for this one because it doesn't rely on the photo sharing side of its business for income. With enough interest and membership, development could and probably would take place.

Add to the list the myriad of photo printing services which have photo sharing features (albeit more limited) .... Most of those are actually free.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Sami Serola club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Yes, Val, Lutz and me will most certainly see what can be done with the Win a Club Membership group, once the IMA's future becomes settled =)

First we ask if the current sponsors are still interested to continue, especially because the yearly costs for the sponsors will also increase. Then we can see if we still have enough sponsors to continue.

What worries me a little is the "three month trial period". It is of course necessary to get new users, and more user, but free trial accounts also gives a "window" for spammers. This is maybe already discussed elsewhere, but I hope there is a good plan how to fight against spam when IMA takes control.
3 years ago.
Juleann
has replied to Bergfex club
My flickr account is that amount for TWO years -- so, really, $25/year.
3 years ago.
 Jean-Marc Bureau
Jean-Marc Bureau club
Thanks William & team, great job.
Will Ipernity S.A. refund the current membership fee or would that be like paying twice over the overlaping period ?
3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to Jean-Marc Bureau club
Jean-Marc,

Ipernity S.A. is separate and independent from IMA and so I can't answer this question. I renewed my membership for two years late last year and accept the fact that I'll have to start fresh again. This was also the case with Blipfoto.
3 years ago.
 Marko Novosel
Marko Novosel club
I dont think we are in a situation where we can negotiate about this matter,we didnt even start to collect real money and there are already problems,people just need to find a way to pay for this site if we want to stay here,if not...we are going all down! No more posting,no more articles,no more nothing,its a reality.

Its easy to be very kind and righteous,but who will find a solution,who will bring cash?
IMA has to stay strong on this,its our only chance,hope Eclectic you will find couple of bucks more to stay here.
3 years ago.
Jaap van 't Veen club
has replied to Marko Novosel club
Fully agree with you. By far the most people don't have a problem paying more.
3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to Marko Novosel club
Hi Marko
No disrespect intended to you personally, but Eclectic knows her financial position and if she says she cannot afford paying the double fee to stay in Ipernity then there is no value in "hoping" that somehow she can find a couple of bucks more to stay here. We must respect the truth of her financial position.
PS She is one of many who are club members but who cannot afford to double the fee (which appears to be mandatory) required to continue as a paying member of IP.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Marko Novosel club
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Hello Tess
William said it very clear,we must be pragmatic.
We need this as a community,its the only way for now,later there will be time to look at this while we sail.
3 years ago.
 autofantasia
autofantasia club
Whilst I think many of the comments and suggestions being put forward underline how much this site means to us all, I'm struck most William by that last remark you made in that "the priority remains first and foremost to save the site".

Perhaps we all need to reflect on that and keep our powder dry shall we say for another day. I'm sure that if the site is indeed saved there will be lots of opportunity to revisit these ideas and many more that we probably haven't even thought of yet.

Equally, perhaps what would also be helpful William would be for you (and by that I mean those currently administering this group) to let us know what if anything we can do at this time to make your lives easier and the tasks in hand more manageable?

Is there anything specific that you guys could do with help with or are there specific skills you feel the current team may be lacking somewhat?

I think up until now those of us not within the inner circle have been concentrating all our efforts on trying to answers and putting forward suggestions that as you've rightly said are perhaps for another day. And I've probably been as guilty of that as anyone, but maybe now it's time to put much of that to one side and start doing all we can to save this great site.

So, the ball is now in your court guys. Please, let us know what help if any you feel you could do with at this point in time?
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to autofantasia club
Thank you Paul for your offer. Right now the best thing people can do is continue to support this site and keep it active and vibrant. Keep sharing photos, participate in groups and keep up the dialogue here and in other threads.

We'll be sure to ask for help when the IMA is officially registered since we'll really need it then.
3 years ago.
autofantasia club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Sounds good to me William, just wanted to be sure that at this point of time there wasn't anything specific you needed ... now I'm off to be active and vibrant! ;)
3 years ago.
Pam J club
has replied to William Sutherland club
I echo Paul's words William. Informing others as best I can.. and please DO let us know if and when you need help we may be able to provide. We are all fighting for this survival !
3 years ago.
 Typo93
Typo93 club
Je voudrais juste soulever un problème et poser une question. Est-il normal que quelqu'un qui télécharge 5 photos par mois paie autant que celui qui télécharge 50 ou 200 photos ?
Serait-il techniquement possible de faire un tarif progressif (ou dégressif) par "tranches" d'utilisation (un peu comme pour les impôts en France :-) ?
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
 HappySnapper
HappySnapper club
In terms of cash 50 euro is a lot for me on a low fixed rate pension, but in concideration that I may spend minimum 15 hours each week mulling through all the uploads and comments exchanging messages between contacts and friends, getting incentives and ideas for the art we all love and support, 50 euro is good value for the entertainment alone. I,ll find the money one way or another. Thanks guys for what you are doing for me and really thanks everyone for the Input in the comments box. It keeps us all informed of the highs and lows of what we are all about.
3 years ago.
 autofantasia
autofantasia club
Member Association Bylaws ...
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
To all, I forgot to close the progress of the project thread before some people added comments. I've copied and pasted the comments here. Thank you Paul for informing me of my oversight.

Favretto Luciano
"""Sezione 3 - Anno fiscale: l'anno fiscale dell'Associazione sarà un anno di calendario (31 gennaio 1-dicembre).""""

Qualcosa è sbagliato?
5 hours ago. Reply | Translate | Edit | Delete

©hristine Jurion-Meu… has replied to Favretto Luciano
+
ARTICLE III — SIEGE SOCIAL
Section 1 — Siège social : Le siège social de l’association est fixé à l’adresse suivante :
Rue Marie Gausson, 94350 Villiers-sur-Marne, en France.

ARTICLE VII — CONSEIL D’ADMINISTRATION ET BUREAU

Section 7 — Composition et fonctions du Bureau : Le Bureau est composé de quatre membres : le Président, le Vice-Président, le Secrétaire et le Trésorier.
Leurs fonctions sont les suivantes.../

QUI SONT LES :

- Président
- Trésorier
- Secrétaire
5 hours ago. Edited 5 hours ago.

Anne H has replied to Favretto Luciano
[...] sera l’année calendaire (1er Janvier – 31 Décembre)
3 hours ago. Edited 3 hours ago.

©hristine Jurion-Meu… has replied to Anne H
Une entreprise privée peut choisir,
l'année calendaire est-elle obligatoire pour une association ?
3 years ago.
Anne H club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Ma réponse portait sur la question de Luciano Favretto (qui cite en italien 31 janvier - 1er décembre).
La loi de 1901 ne fait pas obligation à une association de caler ses activités ou son exercice comptable sur l'année civile
3 years ago.
 Anke
Anke club
Habt Ihr eigentlich juristische Beratung?
Ein Passus wie z.B. dieser erscheint mir recht zweifelhaft:
"Beschlussfähigkeit: Eine ordnungsgemäß einberufene Mitgliederversammlung ist unabhängig von der Anzahl der anwesenden Mitglieder beschlussfähig."
(nur ein Beispiel von mehreren...)
Sorry.......
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
Anke, the bylaws that were created after considerable time were subject to legal review. The documents with the required signatures were also submitted. Only the online version doesn't include signatures since it is posted for informational purposes only.
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
As an fyi, the admins of this group are the people involved in the IMA project.
3 years ago.
 aNNa schramm
aNNa schramm club
Was ist FYI ???- bitte nicht immer diese Kürzel (Abkürzungen) oder wenn bitte Erklärung dazu
LG aNNa*
3 years ago.
Iljuschin club
has replied to aNNa schramm club
3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to aNNa schramm club
Sorry Anna. I will avoid using these shortcuts in the future so there is no confusion.
3 years ago.
 aNNa schramm
aNNa schramm club
ahahaha
;-(( ...
;-)
3 years ago.
 Treasa Ui Cionaodha
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Ticket #37996

Monday February 20, 2017 at 09:06AMTess Mc Kenna says:
Did Ipernity manage to delete inactive or dormant accounts as they told me they would. If you have how many active members actually exist in IP
Thanks for you continued support on queries
Regards Tess.
Reply
188,000 Identified Dormant Accounts
20,000 Number of Dormant Accounts IP have deleted
50,000 Estimated Number of Dormant Accounts that will possibly be deleted in the future
.
116,857 Should then be the number of active Member Accounts.

Therefore the survey number of Members who responded was 1,143.

So the number of active Members is 116,857 - 1,143 Did not participate in the survey. So what does that say in the end. The Survey numbers( as Fizzie has said) are statistically insignificant.

I write this because I care that IP should survive. The IMA need to be brave and address the problem of the survey results as important issue to turn things around and save IP.
3 years ago.
 Keith Burton
Keith Burton club
Call me a cynic, but how do we know that those who may claim to be unable to pay the annual fee are actually telling the truth?
3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to Keith Burton club
Hi Keith
If those who say they cannot pay who are we to doubt them. If they say they cannot pay so be it.
3 years ago.
John Lawrence club
has replied to Keith Burton club
I am on basic state pension which despite what our political masters tell us is difficult to allow for any luxuries, I have a roof over my head and food in my stomach and those things must come first as they did through 50 years of working life so, I was very offended when Keith said the following "Call me a cynic, but how do we know that those who may claim to be unable to pay the annual fee are actually telling the truth?" YES WE ARE!!!

Longer version further down the page.
3 years ago.
 Treasa Ui Cionaodha
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
IF the IMA would consider a tiered system rather than a flat fee of €50 to remain in Ipernity then they might succeed in building a great increased yearly revenue. Just my opinion. I would predict the following.

Financial Prediction so far is This is what we know

€48,100 club fee 962 which is (2/3 of 1443 respondents ) Agreeing paying €50 fee
€34,595 crowdfunding Promised possible Revenue
€82,695 Overall total income would be

This is what we don't know but what if.

If the remainder of club members (estimated ) who cannot afford to double the fee but can pay €25
€25 481 €12,025
€94,720 The overall total would be.

This is what we don't know but what if.

IF half of the nonpaying members could agreed to pay €15
€15 x 59,000 members would bring in a revenue of €885,000 (59,000 This number of half the total non paying members based on the original 118,000 Active Members supplied by IP)

Then the possible Total Revenue would be
€979,720

Again This is what we don't know but what if.
Then if sponsorship shareholders or anything else can come in to the equation IMA would certainly be almost sure to survive.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Anke club
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Vielleicht ist das eine dumme Frage, aber:
Ich ging bisher davon aus, daß die IP-Club-Mitgliedschaft, so wie sie jetzt besteht, etwas ganz anderes ist, als eine Bereitschaft, AUSSERDEM in einem IMA Mitglied zu werden und dort (ausserdem) zu bezahlen.
Bin ich falsch?
Soll zukünftig die IP-Club-Mitgliedschaft zwingend eine IMA-Mitgliedschaft sein?
3 years ago.
Gudrun club
has replied to Anke club
Wenn IMA Erfolg hat, wird es IP und die Clubmitgliedschaft nicht mehr geben. Wie ich es verstehe, gibt es kein ausserdem, sondern wer weiter diese Plattform benutzen möchte, wird IMA-Mitglied und bezahlt einen Beitrag dafür.
3 years ago.
 Marko Novosel
Marko Novosel club
Tess,with all do respect what is this number here 98.000 members?
100.000 members was a fantasy number by ipernity before shitstorm,accounts we can count on are one who finished survey and one who wants to pay 50$

Fig comes here every now and then with his tremendous ideas about clutering this space with thousands of photos like this is some kind of a digital cellar.
35$ for 9000 photos...wtf is this?
People who wants to do this can buy extra hard drive or use dropbox or any other similar service.
People who love this site will find moneh,one who dont will go and put stuff at three different platforms and just dont care.
Iam sick of this shit,IMA stay strong.
3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to Marko Novosel club
Hi Marko
Just one thing to say the figures I used were the figures given to me by IP. I cannot work with any other figures I have no access or any other means to gather information of the total members of Ipernity.
However my problem with your reply is not the dispute over the figures you disagree with. It is the fact that you used such bad language in your reply. "Before shitstorm" "wtf is this" (What the fuck is this) "I am sick of this shit". Is not acceptable. Disagree all you like but show respect for my and others opinions.
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
I agree with Marko re: accounts. From my point, I do not count the number of dormant accounts whatever that figure may be. Personally I hope they have been deleted to free up server space and reduce operating costs. However, from a business point, they don't exist. They are not a revenue potential.

Next, with regard to club memberships, I believe a more accurate figure (and this is an estimate since only Ipernity S.A. has the exact number) is about 2500. Add the number of survey responses -- 1443 and the sample at close to 60% is indeed statistically significant.

Nevertheless, everyone had a chance to participate in the survey. It's unfortunate that some for whatever reason did not. Thus this is the sample we have to work with and the only realistic snapshot of this site.

I also agree with Bergfex re: storage-based models. This type of model would create such uncertainty that a realistic proposal could not be created from it.

Last, if this site is saved and becomes financially stable, we could always explore different options. It pains all of us there are some people who will be unable to pay the 50 Euro membership fee. As discussed above, we will try to address it to the best of our ability.
3 years ago.
 Don Sutherland
Don Sutherland club
FYI, if one is interested in a statistically meaningful sample, one can use the following calculator posted below to find appropriate sample sizes (Gaussian Distribution). For example, if a group has a population of 100,000, one seeks a 95% level of confidence and a margin of error of +/- 5%, a statistically-meaningful sample would be 383 persons.

www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#two
3 years ago.
 John Lawrence
John Lawrence club
I am on basic state pension which despite what our political masters tell us is difficult to allow for any luxuries, I have a roof over my head and food in my stomach and those things must come first as they did through 50 years of working life so, I was very offended when Keith said the following "Call me a cynic, but how do we know that those who may claim to be unable to pay the annual fee are actually telling the truth?" YES WE ARE!!!

I am hoping my subscription will last until August (paid till then) and then I will go, the idea of Fizgig's to charge for usage does seem a fairer way of doing it, then I can control it more, use the site a little less but still be here and part of this amazing community.

From a personal perspective I am not a moaner and I do tell the truth, no private pension for me as in care work we were paid the minimum and could not afford to subscribe to a private pension, there was not much left when usual living expenses were paid.

I would not want to be a charity case and be sponsored but I would pay for my usage and control it myself.

I also have an opinion about free accounts and trial periods, that way people abuse the system and then go on to another site, just be upfront about the cost. If it is the 50 euro's that in my opinion is to much for the reasons I have stated.
Lets hope that IMA see the sense of usage charges.
3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to John Lawrence club
Thank you for having the courage to post that comment.... I say courage because there are an amazing number of uncaring, insensitive people who only care about what they can afford and no one else matters to them. I'm often amazed and more often dismayed at the level of downright meanness people are capable of and how much resistance there has been over this unfair rate proposal.

Believe me, I've seen them all -- though I don't even bother responding to most of them anymore because life has taught me that these types of people cannot be changed or negotiated with. But I read their comments and shake me head and hope that the silent masses have a majority of kinder people.... Slim hope, mind you.

Every argument you can think of against keeping the rates low or tiered plans or fair one, for that matter, has been thrown out there. Everything from "if you can't afford it go someplace else" to "there are free sites" to "maybe these people are just lying" (like, why would anyone sacrifice their self respective for a stupid photo sharing venture?) to "stop moaning about it and just find a way to pay" and, best of all, "this isn't a storage site".... If the servers do not purge images on a timed interval, that makes the site, in part at least, a storage one....

Hang in there.... MAYBE, just maybe, someone with some sense of fairness and a bit of kindness will run across these comments about the proposed fee and have a change of heart.

If not.... I hope the well-to-dos enjoy their sterilized, gentrified photo sharing site..... I've tried my damnedest to open people's eyes to where this fee increase will lead and prevent the loss of many, MANY diverse photographs & art and, most of all, peoples. For those few who took the time to back the effort, thank you.... For those who didn't, shame on you....
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to John Lawrence club
John,

You know your situation. Don't let others question it. I think it does a great disservice for people to question the motives or concerns of others. Thank you John for expressing your concerns.
3 years ago.
 Treasa Ui Cionaodha
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Hi John
I totally agree with you and accept and understand you financial situation as you have described it.
Keith I would consider a friend and is a contact of mine. However when he made that comment "Call me a cynic, but how do we know that those who may claim to be unable to pay the annual fee are actually telling the truth?" I replied to him saying who was he or anyone else to doubt the truth of the statement when people cannot pay ( or words to that effect).
You are not alone in this situation. It appears to me that the IMA are being very unfair and autocratic of making the future of IP/IMA available to only those who can pay the mandatory €50 fee to remain in this photosharing site.
3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
They're also failing to consider the very likely possibility that many acct. holders who could afford the exorbitant fee will deem it "not worth that much".... And then those who stand behind the principle of keeping the site rich and diverse.... That diversity doesn't come from the upper echelons of society -- quite the opposite. So, those folks would leave as well when they realize the site is losing all that diversity. I live in an area of the world where gentrification is a real thing, not some theory on paper.... The process is painful, unfair and leads to a place few want to live even if they can afford it. There is no art, no culture, no variety.... It's soulless, sterile, and feels very lifeless.

Can a website for photo sharing end up feeling that way? Do you folks really want to risk all this monumental effort to find out?

Economics cannot be separated from the salvation of the site.... If you were relying on an outside company with capital independent of that derived from the site to acquire and restructure, etc., that's one thing (like Flickr, for instance).... But when you NEED member support to do so, EVERY potentially paying member matters. So, to ignore the pleas of those who are brave enough to tell you the proposed fee is too high, you ignore potential income. Along with them will go all those who support them more than a photo sharing site for the well-off. And along with them will go those who realize the site isn't worth $50+/yr. And as your membership pool shrinks, those who thought they could afford it will soon find fees rising faster than market rates to sustain this site with no means of generating income for itself otherwise. The end result will be coming full circle to exactly where you are now..... The difference being that once you price people out or make them feel like they don't matter, they're not coming back when you've suddenly realized all the warnings were right. How many left Flickr and refuse to go back even with their new site failing? It's not an issue you can just revisit later like your favorite photo album.... If you price these people out from the start, they're gone for good. And the biggest pool of new members would come from recommendations of current acct. holders.... Shrink that pool before you even get to the "saving" phase & you've made a big economic mistake.
3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
Tess,

I disagree with your statement about the IMA being unfair. Flickr and SmugMug charge about the same as IMA is proposing. They have no exceptions and make no effort to help people who cannot afford their membership fees. The IMA, as I've posted many times, will try and find a way to help those who cannot afford the 50 Euro fee within reason. The only thing the IMA will not do is support free accounts after a 3-month trial period since this would be a disservice to the vast majority of paying members.

Also be aware, SmugMug has no free accounts and it appears to be a successful, vibrant photo community.

In addition, the fee structure for Fotocommunity is considerably higher than what has been proposed for Ipernity:

FOTOCOMMUNITY free: 1pic/week, 100pics max
FOTOCOMMUNITY basic: 10pics/week, 350pics max 4€/month = 48€/year
FOTOCOMMUNITY pro: 15pic/week, 2000pics max 6€/month = 72€/year
FOTOCOMMUNITY world: 30pics/week, no limit in total 8€/month = 96€/year

(Much thanks goes to Berhard for researching and supplying these figures)

In addition, Demand Analysis an objective economic means of measuring potential demand and revenue based on various pricing levels indicates optimal or best revenue levels are achieved at or around the proposed membership fee of 50€ per year.

The IMA is not merely making up a figure. Careful thought, consideration and focus on business and economic realities as well as creation of a realistic proposal (still being negotiated to ensure member interests are protected) that must be approved by Ipernity S.A. and its shareholders go into every decision.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to William Sutherland club
23HQ..... $20/yr., unlimited uploads, photo sharing, groups .... also based in the EU. As good as ipernity; not yet.... More stability; definitely... Better business model; yes.... Issues; yeah, all photo sharing sites have them in one form or another but the design is similar to this site's.

If you want to compare apple to apples. And the fact that people don't want to go to those sites you noted should mean something to the IMA folks beyond just the numbers. It also means they don't want this site turning into those, too. So maybe using their figures without fully knowing what their membership numbers are, operating costs, etc., may not be the best base.... It's a start, but, again, someone should have seen the messages in the discussions here -- and they were abundant -- extolling the pros and cons of each of those sites you mentioned and the basic conclusion that people would rather stay here if possible. And cost was one of the biggest cons, I might add. And now, you're loading this site into the same boat -- potentially.

The problem is mainly that many people have setup a virtual home & community here and they're bound to this site. If that weren't the case, no one would bother arguing about figures or pressing for them to be more fair and inclusive --- they'd simply just leave. Actually many have...
3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to William Sutherland club
I never deleted my flickr account (when I came here to IP) and I still kept my Flickr account and I have free( limited ) uploads. This is fine with me for the moment.

To the best of my knowledge below is the situation of Flickr free accounts.

With the new Flickr, free users now get 1TB of photo uploads, and the maximum photo size is now 200MB (it was 10MB for free users before). What's more, all users can create collections, post to up to 60 group pools and limit the maximum image size available to others.
I know nothing of smugmug or fotocummunity as I have no intention of joining either sites.
3 years ago.
 John Lawrence
John Lawrence club
Very many thanks to Fizgig and Tess for your support, it was difficult for me to admit why I can't afford the 50 Euro fee but I am sure that I am not the only person in this situation, I have had nothing but good experiences on ipernity until I saw the comment about truth. Thanks Fizgig for responding to me personally, I appreciate that sincerely. I will be off and I won't be the only one,that is not a threat it is an economic reality if the 50 Euro fee is set in tablets of stone.
3 years ago.
William Sutherland club
has replied to John Lawrence club
John,

You are not the only person who has this issue. The IMA will do its best to help people who cannot afford the 50€ fee within reason.
3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to William Sutherland club
So, basically, reading between the lines and all..... The 50€ fee is set.... That's what you're saying.... Anything less will be "charitable" assistance to those deemed too poor to afford the fee...

That's a kick in the teeth of many longtime members.... Hope you know that.... Turning long-time paying members into potential charity cases.... For shame!

Very few will lower their self respect to asking for charity..... Not for a photo sharing site. These folks aren't less fortunate, the site itself will end up being less fortunate to lose these members. When those folks go and many others besides, you will quickly find that 50€ per acct. will not be enough to keep this site afloat. You simply will not have enough paying customers. It's one thing to pledge loyalty in a survey and another thing entirely when the economics hit home -- how loyal will your "fortunate" pledges be when you have to jack up the rates to stay afloat? .... These are tough and lean times for most and businesses struggle as a result.... If you won't be flexible with rates for a wider customer base, IMA has little chance of success in this economic environment. You may have an idea of how high the minimum fee can be to still be acceptable to some folks -- what you think may be enough to keep the site afloat --- but hard economic times can come virtually overnight and can hit where least expected. Flexibility is what allows businesses to stay afloat and weather these storms, not alienation of client base. You have the good fortune of having a client base that is, in part, warning you of the mistake you're about to make before you make it.....

Anyway.... It appears like IMA is set on this 50€/yr. fee..... So there isn't much point in trying to convince them that it's a mistake to even mention setting it so high, much less be set on doing it.

But, for the record.... Your "best" would be to reconsider the fee and set more reasonable ones on a tiered basis to allow a majority of current members to remain on the site rather than a very small minority. THAT, IMA, would be the "best" you could do....
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Hi William
Up to now you have maintained that the Membership fee for the IMA would be €50 and that this would be mandatory. You also said that there would be no free accounts available to those who could not afford the mandatory fee. (As per your reply to me below)

So now your saying to John that "The IMA will do its best to help people who cannot afford the 50€ fee within reason". Are you rethinking a change in the IMA approach so far from Mandatory Fees regardless of affordability to now and considering a way to help those who's genuine inability to pay and remain in IP/IMA.
Also what do you mean by "within reason" which sounds to me to be vague and unclear.

Your reply to me when I asked you would the fee be Mandatory on all members
Hi Tess
In essence there will be no free accounts since the trial period will be 3 months. Unfortunately economic realities dictate this not only on Ipernity but all over the Internet. Websites incur real costs that someone has to pay for.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
 Marko Novosel
Marko Novosel club
Yes,you should see long time ago there isn't much point in trying to convince them/us...

Not that just we will survive,we will become a great place for people who care for their work and community. (community who pay of course)
Image sharing sites are going down every year,i would suggest to everybody to find moneh and stay here or you might move every year from site to site until one day you end up on instagram or facebook.
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
Thank you Vicki for your input and sharing your interesting project. While we mention 50 Euros, there's always a chance it could be lower if the crowdfunding brings in more revenue than anticipated.
3 years ago.
 John Lawrence
John Lawrence club
William
You said "You are not the only person who has this issue. The IMA will do its best to help people who cannot afford the 50€ fee within reason." I am afraid that smacks of charity and i can think of far more people that would benefit from charity and are far more needy than me.

A photo sharing site like this is desirable but not an essential and therefore should not be offering to help within reason, there should be a better structure rather than free trial for 3 months and then pay 50 Euros or in my case about £43. look at alternatives, I have already bared my soul and the last thing I need or want is charity. What is to stop me from having 3 free months and starting all over again the next year?? Charge for usage and everyone will pay as much or little as they can afford. BTW what will happen to our current subscriptions? there was talk of refunds but I notice that has not been mentioned. Does that mean my membership will last till August? The use of the words Me and I mean anyone in similar circumstances.

I am not having a go at anyone just trying to make a point, My Grandfather was a journalist but I am afraid I did not inherit his skills!!! I have rambled a bit but point has been made.

Thanks for doing what you are doing.
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
Treasa Ui Cionaodha club
has replied to John Lawrence club
William said "You are not the only person who has this issue. ( inability to double the IMA fee to € 50.) William said The IMA will do its best to help you and I suppose other people who cannot afford the 50€ fee (will be helped by the IMA) within reason."
There is no way this acceptable. As I have already said to William his statement "within reason" sounds to me to be vague and unclear. It is in effect and Ambiguous statement.

Finally if the IMA insist that all members pay the mandatory fee of €50 or leave then they will be left with very few members and will become a non-viable site.
3 years ago.
 Juleann
Juleann
I have attempted to read through most of the comments here and on other threads -- it is hard to know where the "main" conversation is happening.

My two cents . . . a tiered membership please, with no more than 3 options. Tied to usage and space seems like a place to start. A base level of $50/year is too high. I actually think $35 should be the top level. I am most comfortable with $15-$25-$35. (dollars, euros, whatever )

As I have said before, I am willing to commit to giving more each year but only as a non-profit contribution. The cost of membership needs to reflect the actual tangible service provided, not the emotional ties people may (or may not) have as a result of their interactions and "friendships". THAT part is supported via contributions.

Re: free accounts -- 1-3 months, limited uploads and then either join or be deleted. Strictly enforced.

It is important to me to have sliding scale options and for all of the options to be reasonable. Then, those of us who can give more, should do so. I am not enamored of sponsorships -- I prefer to have the rates set at affordable levels in order to be inclusive and diverse as a policy goal of the organization, not the result of hit-or-miss charity.

I have found some of the tone of conversations in the various threads to be disconcerting. No one should have to defend whether or what they can afford to pay -- that is personal. At the same time, there is clearly a small group of people giving their time & trying their best to figure this out. There is no need to cast aspersions on their motives and to rant & rail against them.

My thanks and appreciation to all . . . .
3 years ago. Edited 3 years ago.
John Sheldon club
has replied to Juleann
A voice of calm and sense - good contribution to these rambling and confusing discussions. I'm sure that when the IMA is in possession of all the facts and can weigh the options on the basis of something better than the guesswork and incomplete information they are using at present, it will be possible for them to produce a scheme that is a fair as possible whilst adequate to keep Ipernity up and running now and into the future.
3 years ago.
 Martin Korth
Martin Korth club
Endschuldigung, ich schreib es auf deutsch, damit kann ich besser ausdrücken, was ich sagen will. Ihr müsst es dann selber übersetzen, ich muss das auch, um irgend etwas hier zu verstehen.
1. Ich habe einen inneren Konflikt damit, in einen Verein eintreten zu müssen. Zumal ich französisches Vereinsrecht nicht mal ansatzweise kenne und damit auch nicht die Verpflichtungen, die sich als Vereinsmitglied daraus ergeben.
Schaut mal, wenn ich zu einem Fußballspiel gehe, dann kann ich wählen von der einmaligen billigen Eintrittskarte hinter dem Tor bis zur Jahreskarte in der VIP-Lounge. Ich zahle sehr unterschiedliche Preise und bekomme auch sehr unterschiedliche Leistungen. Aber ich muss kein Vereinsmitglied werden.
Deshalb habe ich auch in der Umfrage alles abgelehnt.
2. Für mich ist das leidige Thema Finanzen keine Frage, ob ich mir Ipernity zukünftig leisten kann, sondern ob ich mir das leisten will.
Dabei mache ich es davon abhängig, welche Leistungen ich im Vergleich zu anderen Anbietern für mein Geld bekomme.
Ich bin bei Ipernity ein eher untypischer Nutzer. Meine Zielgruppe liegt nicht bei den Ipernity-Nutzern, sondern fast ausschließlich bei externen Nutzern. Ich bin reiner Gebrauchsfotograf, ich fotografiere auf Veranstaltungen und biete über die gemachten Bilder allen Leuten weltweit an, nachträglich an der Veranstaltung teilzunehmen, obwohl sie nicht anwesend seinen konnten. Etliche Bilder verlinke ich auf in allem möglichen Foren weltweit und auch bei verschiedenen Social-Media-Angeboten.
Die Saison geht für mich von März bis November, das heißt, ich muss mich jetzt entscheiden, wo ich die nächsten 12 Monate meine Bilder anbiete.
Dabei liegt mir Ipernity insofern am Herzen, als mein Name zusammen mit der Plattform zwischenzeitlich weltweit als Marke wahrgenommen wird. Ein Umzug zu einem anderen Anbieter würde die Marke zerstören.
Trotzdem habe ich in den letzten Wochen, um die Kontinuität in meinem Bilderangebot halten zu können, bei Flickr an die 9000 Bilder von vergangen Veranstaltungen hochgeladen. Irgendwie muss es ja weitergehen.
Ipernity ist in seinem derzeitigen Leistungsangebot als eher traditionelle Bilderplattform ziemlich einmalig, am ehesten noch vergleichbar mit Fotki. Und die liegen preislich zwischenzeitlich auf gleichem Niveau. Insofern ist der Preis in Ordnung.
Trotzdem bin ich der Meinung, dass es unbedingt zumindest ein unbefristetes kostenloses Angebot geben muss. Ich habe vor Ipernity etliche Plattformen ausprobiert, unter anderem Arcor (benutze ich bis heute noch für einzelne Dinge, wird aber leider gerade eingestellt), Fotki, Flickr.
Flickr war in seiner alten Version das beste Angebot, in der heutigen Version ist es eigentlich unbrauchbar.
Aber bei allen ausprobierten Plattformen habe ich immer erst die kostenlose Version genutzt, meistens ist es bei dem kostenlosen Angebot geblieben. Nur in wenigen Fällen habe ich mich für die kostenpflichtige Version entschieden. Und das ging nicht innerhalb von drei Monaten, eher eine Frage von 1-2 Jahren.

Keiner verlangt, dass ein kostenlosen Angebot den vollen Leistungsumfang abbildet. Ich hatte das schon mal vor Wochen angesprochen, das man schauen muss, was denn die tatsächlichen Kostenverursacher sind. Speicherplatz, Trafic, Support, etc. ?
An der entsprechenden kostenintensiven Stelle müsste man das Angebot dann stark einschränken.
Aber es ist wichtig, dass man mindestens ein kostenloses Angebot im Portfolio hat.
3 years ago.
Bergfex club
has replied to Martin Korth club
Hallo Martin, ich antworte Dir der Einfachheit halber auch mal auf deutsch: Oben forderst Du einen Zeithorizont von 1-2 Jahren für free-Accounts, bist aber schon drei Jahre dabei. Insofern versteh ich Deine Einlassung nicht. Darüber hinaus erwähnst Du, dass dein Name in Verbindung mit IP als Marke wahrgenommen wird und Du daraus einen Mehrwert ziehst. Wo ist also das Problem?
3 years ago.
 autofantasia
autofantasia club
Given that the ipernity platform, software or whatever you would call it in its existing form can cope with two distinct account types (currently free and Club) surely it would be possible to just revisit what a free account holder gets in the way of benefits?

If so, why not retain free accounts, but with minimal benefits and at the same time with no need for these account holders to join the IMA?

At the same time, why not make the second group of accounts subscription based with unrestricted access to the platform plus membership of the IMA and the additional rights this would bring in the way of voting powers?

If the restrictions on free accounts were sufficient enough I'd imagine the effect on servers etc. would be minimal, but it would allow those who currently use ipernity but are either on lower incomes or who live in countries where exchange rates are less favourable to stay ... thus helping retain diversity.

There would be other benefits too I feel of adopting this model.

Firstly, these free accounts would also allow potential new customers to trial the platform, but with greater incentive to eventually upgrade than has ever been the case before.

Secondly, given that we live in such uncertain times it would mean if people take out the higher rate IMA accounts, but then their circumstances change they could downgrade if you like to a free account and stay with ipernity until their situation improves.

Surely the suggestions I've made would be doable, allow existing users on restricted incomes to stay with ipernity and encourage others to come and join us?
3 years ago.
 William Sutherland
William Sutherland club
To all,

Unfortunately I have to be ambiguous because we still don't have a finalized approach. Many things re: platform operation (who will run it) and costs as well as real revenue projections remain unclear. They depend on the outcome of negotiations and the obligations of all parties involved.

Also, we have no IT specialists. They would be required to create a tiered system if this becomes a viable option in the future. Right now with the existence of a dual membership structure (free and club) we might have a foundation to work with. Perhaps depending on the crowdfunding results and finalized proposal/contract, free memberships could be changed into a lower paying membership.

While I can't speak for everyone involved with IMA, I'm opposed to free memberships lasting more than 3 months. It is these accounts that crippled Ipernity in the first place. Expenses soared with no revenue to meet them. This mistake cannot be repeated.

Last, in my opinion, 23HQ is a very basic site with very limited options compared to Ipernity. At this time, there can be no comparison. Its structure is "primitive" to say the least.
3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to William Sutherland club
I beg to differ..... You should check out my acct. there to see what can be done to customize it via CSS -- and I'm just getting started. Ipernity offers no such option -- though it's supposed to be a more "advanced" platform. In some ways it is very basic, I will agree, but not in all ways ;)

There are things that could be expanded and built on, I agree -- same can definitely be said for ipernity.... But at least it's stable. Basic and in the black is better than bells-and-whistles and in the red. Just like this site is like Flickr before the upgrades in 2013 that cause the mass migration of members, 23HQ is a simpler, but more flexible form of pre-update ipernity --- from which members fled from here, too, by the way ;)

What crippled this site isn't just free accts. Poor business plan helped too.... Unwillingness to partner with other sites and photo services to offset costs.... No advertising on free accts. Promised upgrades and changes never getting done....

And soon to come.... Unsustainable fees ;) And, I for one, can't see this site having much of a future without a tech. person --- at least one. Advancement on the web waits for no one... You really are rowing upstream in a rusty, holey boat with no oars =\
3 years ago.
raingirl club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Thank you William for taking the time to post. I AM SO HAPPY TO HEAR THAT NEGOTIATIONS ARE STILL HAPPENING!!

To all - I would like to point out that William and the other founding members of the IMA are simply that, the founding members. We will be working as a group, together, once we have a fully functioning IMA accepted by the current Ipernity (read the bylaws for details).

There is a fine line between putting suggestions out there for consideration and pointing fingers at the start up plan and saying it will ruin ipernity. News people, without the start up plan ruin is certain. And the start up plan is just that - a place to begin.

Let's focus on our good fortune to have William, Don & Eric (I'm sorry I know I'm forgetting the other founding members) on our side!!!! Let's hope that their work (not mine, I didn't have the time/ability to help - did you?) is fruitful so we can then find solutions to the issues being brought up here.

That said, I hope the negotiations will resolve soon (as I'm sure we all do), as it will take time for people to put up the money they have said they are willing to pay.

Good luck! Bonne Chance!! (sorry, I don't know it in other languages)

peace,
laura
3 years ago.
raingirl club
has replied to Fizgig
I'm happy that 23HQ is working out for you. I am still struggling there. I don't have any CSS skills (I don't even know what that is), so that may be my issue with my troubles there. I can at least make some connections with people.

Honestly, I would be happy with ipernity in its current state if it gets to continue. I don't need continual updates. I know others need and enjoy that type thing, but for me it is sophisticated enough as is.

And in case you don't read backwards in these threads (I can barely keep up with comments going forward), I commented to all (in a reply to William):
"Let's focus on our good fortune to have William, Don & Eric (I'm sorry I know I'm forgetting the other founding members) on our side!!!! Let's hope that their work (not mine, I didn't have the time/ability to help - did you?) is fruitful so we can then find solutions to the issues being brought up here."
peace,
laura
3 years ago.
autofantasia club
has replied to William Sutherland club
Great to know you guys are still listening William and even more importantly that you are still negotiating a way forward. :)

I'm equally pleased that you've picked up on my comment about the fact that the existing structure of the platform allows for differentiating between two different account types and so would seem to allow for a tiered structure of sorts.

Yes, it would need managing very carefully to stop the demands of the entry level accounts becoming too much of a burden in the future as has happened in the past, but like I said before it would be doable, allow existing users on restricted incomes to stay with ipernity and encourage others to come and join us.

With regards the lack of an IT specialist, even if that is not a major problem right now it is definitely going to be an issue in due course.

Not because I think the platform needs to be continually upgraded and given more 'awesomeness' like some have suggested, but simply because glitches will occur from time to time and there will be a need to maintain the platform and keep it secure.

Sadly, I don't have any such skills to offer, but can I suggest that you make a point of flagging this up perhaps even via a separate thread? I mean there must be people within the community who have such skills and who would be willing to help, but they won't necessarily spot this one reference to it amidst all the chatter! :)
3 years ago.
Fizgig
has replied to raingirl club
@raingirl.... I didn't have any real CSS skills when I first started there either... Limited HTML skill, yes, but CSS was all new to me. Slowly, but surely, though I've been learning -- have made mistakes along the way mind you..... And there are members who are more proficient who are more than willing to answer questions -- which is a really big help =) Usually, if you run across something in someone's profile or on their photo page which is custom and you ask them how it was done (coded), they're more than happy to share. The trick is not being afraid to ask .... So, while CSS code knowledge isn't a must at all for 23HQ to work for any user, it helps in terms of customizing the site experience. But, like I said, asking is the trick ;) The wheel doesn't need to be reinvented, after all....
3 years ago.
Jaap van 't Veen club
has replied to raingirl club
Agree with you Laura !!
3 years ago.
Stormlizard club
has replied to William Sutherland club
23HQ is worse than you describe William, there are no Active Service or Technical people there, if a bug is reported which I have found several of and attempted no help or reply is offered.
It is not an alternative to Flickr,, and certainly not to Ipernity with its Diversity of possible useages that many enjoy.
3 years ago.

This discussion has been closed by StoneRoad2013.