Mirrors and reflective surfaces

This group should stay as pool or and admin can be found!

Again the same question. Will you take the group administration, and possibly seek also co-administrators and/or moderators? And hopefully also check through the translations of the group description?

And if you don't, then please help finding someone.

Group closed and the caption updated. So, again, if you wish to take the group and try to improve it, then it can be considered. But please first have a look on more active thematic duplicates and consider using them instead:
www.ipernity.com/search/group?view=2&opt=1&q=mirror+%7Creflect&w=0&s=1&m=0

I don't agree with your procedure. First, I already manage too much groups, so no time for this one. I mentioned it several times, there is enough reason to close a group or even delete it, if ALL of 3 criteria are fullfilled, which would mean the group is already dead.

1) There are no new posts for let's say 6 month.
2) All of the last posts are from users, which are not members anymore or which have not been active for a long time (a year or so).
3) There is no administrator.

The absence of an administrator alone (or the absence of an "active" admin alone) can never be a reason to close or delete a group, if there are MANY NEW POSTS OF ACTIVE MEMBERS, which means the group is ALIVE. Who is so massively hurt by this current state, tell me. Why not wait until a new admin is found in the future.

In general: I think it's an unfriendly action against these active members, who are posting in this group. The only way would be an offer to all these active members to merge this group with a very similar, more active group and if they agree, an automatic transfer of their images in the other group.

Such a merge of 2 groups was easy to manage with the Patagonia groups. But this was easy, because there were few members, I know both groups and almost all images were duplicates.

Who "owns" a group? The active members? The Administrator(s)? The IMA? Nobody?

+ 4) Topic is a thematic duplicate.

What comes to reasons you mentioned:

1) There are no new posts for let's say 6 month.
2) All of the last posts are from users, which are not members anymore or which have not been active for a long time (a year or so).

Those are criteria defined by you. Who will decide? Group members or the group admin? Or ima team?

If we have a look at Group guidelines:
Public groups are not your property
By creating public groups, you contribute to the public image of ipernity. Act responsibly. Always keep in mind to serve the overall welfare of ipernity. Formulate the group rules appropriately in accordance with the basic principle of ipernity as a cosmopolitan community in which different cultures and views may have their place. If in doubt, consult with the ima team. If your group doesn't succeed, dissolve it or merge it with a thematically matching group. Help ensure that the overall public perception of ipernity does not appear too fragmented.

So, I will consult ima team then.

Also this mentioned on the Group guidelines:

Avoid duplicates
If there is already a public group on a topic, it is usually no good idea to create an additional one of your own. For external visitors, a fragmented ipernity is unattractive. You'd better join the existing group and enrich it with your content. In this way you help to keep ipernity clear, lively and interesting.

Although, after many years it is rather dificcult to say who have created something before another.

But at least this has been before: www.ipernity.com/group/reflections
And will become as a subject of takeover soon...

And this administrated by a Club member: www.ipernity.com/group/reflection

Also this administrated by a Club member: www.ipernity.com/group/mirror.spieglein

Sami, of course this was only my very humble personal opinion, as it is yours. Exchange of opinions. Decide and make, what you think is important for the wellbeing of Ipernity.

Unfortunately there still is no tool to merge groups. So, those members who hae not yet contributed on other thematic duplicate groups, have to do it themselves.

But once again, thanks to your feedback, I again try to improve.

And for the record, only one anonymous visit besides us. So, people really does not seem to care.

I repeatedly mentioned - and also Markus e.g., that the main reason for most of all groups is NOT, to visit the group very often, but to create a pool for certain special times. "people does not seem to care" is therefore no argument. I appreciate your action to find active administrators very much. But again, to close or even to delete groups which are very active (except there is no admin), is very unfriendly, at least. You have to understand, green hippos are bigmouthed, but others simply don't express their view, but could feel similar.

Btw, what is the group "Monochrome Photography" bzw. "Monochrom Fotografie"? I see, that I'm a member, but I don't remember this name. Was it renamed? This is totally confusing. I know a group under a certain name, and then it's suddenly renamed. Do you know the former name? Same applies to "water forms", I'm even moderator there, but don't remember the name, was it renamed? There must be a former name, which I knew. I'm sure I could find others.

"the group "Monochrome Photography" bzw. "Monochrom Fotografie"? I see, that I'm a member, but I don't remember this name. Was it renamed?"

Yes, reanamed by me. Previously been "Mono Images - Invitation NOT Needed" by Gina P. I am the admin, and used the liberty to rename it. You may like it or not, but the goal is to provide at least one group that allow monochromes other than only black and white:

www.ipernity.com/search/group?w=0&q=monochrom

I then may alienate those who have used to the old name, but it is better for the search point of view. Btter than "mono images".

"Same applies to "water forms", I'm even moderator there, but don't remember the name, was it renamed?"

It was "0P3N.water" by josepina EPHEMERE, who had several groups with an idea of "OPEN" groups. The system may have made sense when josepina was looking after them. But not anymore. But the name was already changed before me. These groups have been passed form one to another for quite some time.

I'm quite inconvenient, I know, but this may be my last comment to this issue. "You may like it or not" is not the question. It's very confusing for all group members. You add an image by writing the first letters into the group field, then all relevant groups occur, but not the old name. I think this is suboptimal. And at least there should be a relevant message to the members, and of course to a moderator. I will not bother you again......I see, that a discussion is unrewarding if you call a group with many new posts and many active members "neglected", only because the administrator is not active or has left Ipernity. Then we have to wait until a new admin is found, even if it takes a long time.

1. What is done in private groups is none of our concern.

2. What is done in public groups shall always be done with ipernity's public image in focus. A cluttered appearance shall be avoided. Duplicates shall be avoided. Where duplicates already exist, merging shall be done whenever possible.

3. According to the group guidelines, the finding of a title is the task of the administrator. Titles shall be concise and accurate. They shall be findable via the search function. Special characters in the title shall be avoided.

There is therefore nothing wrong when a former cryptic, internationally hardly understandable title beginning with '0P3N . . . ' is improved to be compliant with the group guidelines. The new administrator does nothing else than correct a guideline infringement of his predecessor.

That in the regular cases a notification of the group members is desirable is understandable. However, it should also be understood that the additional workload associated with such extensive cleanup activities as the Groupbusters have undertaken is not affordable. After all, we are not talking about just a few groups, but hundreds, if not thousands. We therefore plead for these idealists to be treated with a certain generosity. We are glad that things are progressing at all.

ad 2) .Merging of groups with duplicate groups would be perfect, if active mebers are informed in advance and their images are shifted to the merged group. Otherwise it's a no go, it's an unfriendly action. I fully agree, that titles should be accurate, refering to newly created groups. But absolutely not with groups, which exist for many years. In this case a sudden renaming without any information is nothing but - very - confusing.

I've mentioned this before and say it again. A group should have a unique single name. Now with the extension of title translations many groups have suddenly 3 or more different names, depending on the language settings - and if there was only an English name before, you now see suddenly a german title instead, if you have set German language. I don't know any photo community platform, which handles this issue in this way. One possibility would be one unique multilingual, but I think all different kind of languages could live with a group named "People".

I still see not the reason, why you take the issue with old groups so serious. You really think, that Ipernity's public image suffers under this issue? Really? Look on other platforms, like Flickr (and I never heard anyone complaining about duplicates on Flickr), this is the search result for "flowers": www.flickr.com/search/groups/?text=flowers or for "reflection": www.flickr.com/search/groups/?text=reflection ...you have to scroll down until the end.....

ad3) Yes generosity is always important. Also for old groups, group names, duplicate or better similar topics, and its active members.

Berny,

I really appreciate the time you take to think about what we're doing and write clearly about your thoughts on it. Your input is very helpful. I agree with some of it, other points I think are a mis-understanding, other things we just have different visions.

So from where I stand and as one of the admins of Groupbusters I want to try and clarify some things.

[Know that even though I am a team member and admin of Groupbusters, I am not speaking for the team here. Any errors can be corrected by the team.]

1) The main goal of the GroupBusters is to get rid of the groups abandoned by the Guest members.

2) Groups with thematic duplicates administrated by Club members can stay.
(Though we hope that such groups will consider combining with the duplicates - we are not forcing it.) I personally understand reasons for there being multiple groups on similar themes, but if identical themes can be merged, this is a goal of ours.
Know that the merging of groups is not a simple process. It is basically a manual process that requires group members to do some of the work. (Our website program isn't set up to do such a change easily.) So this is a careful and fairly slow process.

3) Regarding your comment on "old" groups. We should be clear we are discussing the same thing. From the context of your paragraph, I believe you are talking about groups that are thematic duplicates of other groups.
An important reason for eliminating groups abandoned by Guest members is to have groups that are here to stay on their topic. Without an active administrator groups can easily become random groupings. This does not make ipernity look like a vibrant community.

4) Regarding groups that aren't thematic duplicates but are abandoned by guest members but are actively being contriubted to by current members, then the desire is to find someone using the group to step up and be admin. I personally have stepped up for a couple of such groups. I am interested in the topic and wanted the group to remain. [Perhaps you will find a few groups like that to take on?]

You mention that Flickr doesn't care and doesn't suffer? I bet you're right that Flickr doesn't care, but how do you know Flickr doesn't suffer? They have large numbers of users, but they also have financial difficulties. So who's to say that their miriade of groups isn't part of the problem? While we smartly need to pay attention to what flickr does, we don't need to hold them up as a yardstick for what we do.

Thank you specifically for mentioning how the change of a group name can effect people's use of the group. I don't believe we had considered that side of things. So as a curtesy I am suggesting that we send a ipermail to group members if such a change takes place, but this is not a guarantee that will always happen. However, know that any admin can change a group name whenever they want, and so while it may be frustrating for the members of a group whose name changes, it is not out of line with how groups work here.

There are no binding regulations for the procedures of merging and changing the name. But we have taken note of your personal opinion.

As Raingirl and Sami Serola have already mentioned, very few group members reply to iper-mails or take part in discussions. In this respect, the measures you propose cause considerable additional work without bringing any appropriate additional benefit.

We ask for your understanding that we do not want to hinder the group, which voluntarily takes care of the mess, in its work by too many regulations. We consider it sufficient that a member of the ima team (Raingirl) is integrated into this group.

We also ask for some generosity and support for the cleaning process, which is still part of the quality campaign proclaimed by Eric Desjours, our former President. Our ambition is to be better than Flickr in terms of the user experience.

Since Sami is no longer in charge I kindly ask that someone of the team is going to take care for this group and the ongoing discussion.

I guess that there is still the request for an administrator and I wrote several times that I am prepared to take over this group.

So please, can someone open this group???

Since Sami is no longer in charge I kindly ask that someone of the team is going to take care for this group and the ongoing discussion.

I guess that there is still the request for an administrator and I wrote several times that I am prepared to take over this group.

So please, can someone open this group???

There are more than a dozen groups on the topic of reflections:
www.ipernity.com/search/group?view=2&opt=&q=reflect&w=0&s=0&m=0
Merging the general groups is absolutely desirable in terms of how our website presents itself to outside visitors.

Since Sami is no longer in charge I kindly ask that someone of the team is going to take care for this group and the ongoing discussion.

I guess that there is still the request for an administrator and I wrote several times that I am prepared to take over this group.

So please, can someone open this group???

My apologies for being "edgy" yesterday. Apologies especially to Berny.

Going through hundreds of groups have taken it's toll.

First, I have removed the red "group may become deleted after one month" on all posts. I agree, it gives an impression like there is a hurry. And there really is not.

But the real problem here is to make people notice And I do not talk about noticing something in a week, or even in a month. But at some point, one must make actions that hopefully makes people notice something happening.

So, closing a group that is a less active than thematic duplicate groups is one action. When several of them appears on "your groups", it hopefully makes people realize it.

Posting discussion topic alone on the group discussions is a waste of time. People does not visit group discussions unless it is a habit for them. Especially when they are poorly notified. Therefore, I have started to add large linked images on group descriptions, group icons changed, and posts on the group contributions.

The rather recently added group mail feature could be one option. But I hesitate to use it because I do not know the groups and members on them. Sending shared mail to all members is not appropriate, especially when they get also email notification on it. I would have to go through all the members to find out who are maybe still using ipernity and are maybe interested on the issue.

But yes, choosing at least the most active group members could be an option. Also, apologies for not consulting the possible group moderators first on some cases. But there have been so many cases to take care of that it would be also way too difficult to check which of the group moderators are maybe still active at ipernity.

I hope the removal of “deleting in one month” is now enough. And from now on, no more changing group names. We will pass the groups to possible new admins as they are. Even if the group names and descriptions does not make sense (including the possible missing images and links on the descriptions).

Thanks for removing the red text, it looked policelike. As I mentioned, your efforts are generally very meaningful, but the practical way was too "harsh" in my opinion. And I'm sure you really overestimate the effects. Ipernity will not acquire even one more club member by reducing duplicate groups etc., people who are stopping by and who are eventually interested in a membership are looking after other features. For sure. And in terms of Flickr, I googled a lot and couldn't find any critics, any thread, any post referring to duplicate groups.

Hallo Berny

Habe es mitverfolgt, wie du versucht hast, mit guten Argumenten -wie ich finde- diese Gruppe zu "retten".
Habe dazu vor 2 Monaten (siehe mein Kommentar weiter unten) meine Bereitschaft erklärt als administrator zu fungieren. Da ich bis heute nichts von Sami oder * ઇઉ * gehört habe, gingen heute an beide members je eine Antwort mit dem gleichen Text. Hier die Kopie zu deiner Kenntnis (Mal sehen ob jetzt was passiert!)

"Since no one has looked into this file and did not read my comment of 2 months ago I now make a second try by using the "reply button" directly to IMA members and hope to receive an answer this time:

"Here my statement:
>If no one else is interested, I would like to take over the group administration
of the "mirrors" group.
To my opinion, this theme is not really overrepresented, since other groups have often slightly different issues, such as reflections on water only.
This group obviously includes all types of surfaces and should be of interest for a larger number of users.<"

GroupBusters no longer close the groups based on more active thematic duplicate available alone. And will not touch the group names or descriptions either. So, we only call out for new admins, who then get the free hands to decide what to do.

Apologies for the damage done so far.

But truly inactive groups still will become closed and deleted (no contributions for years, and no Club member admin, and only handful of members).

Since Sami is no longer in charge I kindly ask that someone of the team is going to take care for this group and the ongoing discussion.

I guess that there is still the request for an administrator and I wrote several times that I am prepared to take over this group.

So please, can someone open this group???

The group should be deleted.

• It is in fact a thematic duplicate, and not only that.

• Some members have not posted at all.
Several of the 38 members have been inactive within the group, some for more than three years.

• Such groups do not serve the overall welfare of ipernity, even if the members' contributions are of good to very good quality.

• Merging this group with another does not make sense simply because of the amount of thematically identical groups.

• Also, I would strongly suggest going back to the previous approach and closing smaller groups that are set up like the one above, simply because of more active, and ideally, internally tidy duplicates.

• In order not to favor or disadvantage anyone, no distinction should be made between orphaned/inactive groups of inactive non-paying and inactive paying members (admins and/or moderators).

• Changing group names and descriptions should be left to GroupBusters admins and moderators, and more than that.
The administrators and moderators of the GroupBusters group are putting into practice part of the quality offensive suggested by Eric Dejours, our previous president, and they have developed a good and well thought-out concept for their work with an excellent eye for the essentials. They alone bear the responsibility and have the right and the freedom to make mistakes and to learn from them, if one can speak of mistakes here at all, instead of being massively restricted in their work, as can be read here in some comments.

It is up to those members of ipernity who still do not want to get out of their personal comfort zone to both accept and respect that and do their best themselves.

I deeply respect freedom of speech and expression, but the repeated interference of a non-board member with the rights and obligations of other administrators and / or moderators of a public group whose working concept is based on the Group Guidelines of ipernity is presumptuous and unacceptable.

In order not to stall the work too much and possibly lose track of things, I would like to suggest, in cases like the group mentioned above, not to wait four weeks until the closure, but to act as soon as possible.

You are destructive here as you were many times before. As you are completely anonymous, you allow yourself this basic attitude. You like it to lord over others, to play police. I believe, it's a personal emotional joy for you to "delete" something, either groups or images of other users. You indeed do harm to Ipernity. This is a community, where fun has always priority. Rules are necessary, but nobody (almost) wants this kind of legal pedantry, which you are celebrating. By the way, it's intersting that all of the 14 groups, where you are admin, have only one admin, you. What does that tell us? You have posted 32 "public" works (only some are "photos") in 4 years, so do you agree, we can call you "not (really) active"?

You are posting images yourself which do not fit in the group's topic. Only for example
www.ipernity.com/doc/2273046/50618394
What has this image to do with "Stille" (silence). Or this:
www.ipernity.com/doc/2273046/49894816
Is this "abstract"??
And you are tolerating many images, which absolutely do not fit into your groups.

This is all not really important and I never would say a word about it. But you are complaining in such a terrible way about other groups and at the same time you yourself do not respect your beloved rules??

It get's even worse. In your own group "Reflexionen - nenoixelfeR" you posted this
www.ipernity.com/doc/2273046/50592694
Do you see any reflection here? In your group description you explicitely forbid images with refraction and tell all others overly didactic, you will delete such photos. This is refraction in your image? Isn't it?

Self-control and objectivity are truly not your strengths. And yet you make every effort to belittle and expose others and subject them to your will. This you show here once more in a very descriptive way. But you are neither God nor my judge.

About my "anonymity": And for how many times do you disregard the right to the protection of my privacy and verbally harass me, because I dare to meet your unreasonable demands and expectations with resistance? I can't put it into numbers anymore.
But whether you like it or not, who I entrust my personal data to and who I don't, is still for me to decide, because it's my right. And whether I use a graphic symbol or some spelled out name as username makes no difference and is my business alone.

You think you know me, but you never did. I feel sorry for you. Honestly.
And as long as you don't respect my rights and the ipernity Group guidelines and Guide of good conduct, I refuse to have any further discussion with you.

Expressing opinions is not "playing police".

And whether any of us appears as anonymous online is not the topic here, neither it is against the ipernity terms of use. One may have very good reasons for that.

Then examples you give on "silence", "abstract" and "reflection" are in my opinion very subjective topics, and teherefore very difficult to judge objectively. What represents silence for one, may differ from what others see there.

Besides, the Club member you accuse here is just as open for interpretations on other contributions accepted to their groups. For example few times I've been asked to contribute on group Strong Colors with images where I do not see strong colors. But also that is rather open for interpretations.

If someone posts an image of a flower on a group for cats, and there is no cat found in the image, then it is easier to claim the image is off topic.

But because of the strong opinons shared here, I personally will no longer do anything else but give suggestions and option to take over the groups released under "ADMIN WANTED". Then what someone does with those group, is their business.

Thank you.

I would like to add only one point to your remarks.
As to reflections, I don't think there is too much room for interpretation, but anyone who knows the characteristics of a rainbow knows that the background of the criticized image corresponds exactly to the subject and has nothing to do with refraction.

Since no one has looked into this file and did not read my comment of 2 months ago I now make a second try by using the "reply button" directly to IMA members and hope to receive an answer this time:

Here my statement:
>If no one else is interested, I would like to take over the group administration
of the "mirrors" group.
To my opinion, this theme is not really overrepresented, since other groups have often slightly different issues, such as reflections on water only.
This group obviously includes all types of surfaces and should be of interest for a larger number of users.<

I really do not like the wording you are using in this comment.

This is not the way how members of IMA or users should carry out discussions.
I think we should come back to a moderate and polite style, and further more should follow up the ongoing conversation, e.g. give an reply to a comment that I posted 2 months ago.
(See my reply from today)!

Since Sami is no longer in charge I kindly ask that someone of the team is going to take care for this group and the ongoing discussion.

I guess that there is still the request for an administrator and I wrote several times that I am prepared to take over this group.

So please, can someone open this group???

Since Sami is no longer in charge I kindly ask that someone of the team is going to take care for this group and the ongoing discussion.

I guess that there is still the request for an administrator and I wrote several times that I am prepared to take over this group.

So please, can someone open this group???

Since Sami is no longer in charge I kindly ask that someone of the team is going to take care for this group and the ongoing discussion.

I guess that there is still the request for an administrator and I wrote several times that I am prepared to take over this group.

So please, can someone open this group???

Because the discussion on this seems to continue, I have again added this README as an contribution to the group we are talking about.

Since no one has looked into this file and did not read my comment of 2 months ago I now make a second try by using the "reply button" directly to IMA members and hope to receive an answer this time:

Here my statement:
>If no one else is interested, I would like to take over the group administration
of the "mirrors" group.
To my opinion, this theme is not really overrepresented, since other groups have often slightly different issues, such as reflections on water only.
This group obviously includes all types of surfaces and should be of interest for a larger number of users.<

Hi. I am so sorry that your comments have not been acknowledged before now. As you know, Sami has taken a leave of helping out on ipernity. I have been very busy with other work on ipernity. We (someone on the IMA team) should have connected with this project and let people know how to contact the team if they wanted to take over a group. Thank you for your diligence and using the 'reply' function to get attention.

Thank you for your interest in taking over the group administration of the 'Mirrors and reflective surfaces' group. As long as you want to be an active admin of the group, I will do the work of making you admin.

I will message you now so we can have easier communication about this.