Michael Published on June 21, 2007
by Michaelpro

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Censorship update
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Censorship update

Thursday June 21, 2007 at 02:38AM

In the debate on access restrictions for German users Flickr has now announced to allow access to "moderate" content for users. "Restricted" pictures remain blocked for now. Flickr has also finally clarified that their concerns were rooted in the provisions of the JMStV (www.artikel5.de/gesetze/jmstv.html).

www.flickr.com/help/forum/en-us/43626/

I already wrote some of this on the official flickr thread a few days ago but hey, I have to fill the blog somehow.

Before the JMStV it was legally impossible to offer hardcore pornographic content via TV or Internet in Germany. This law allowed this for the first time while defining age verification requirements and setting up a commision to oversee the execution of the law. (The comission also operates www.jugendschutz.net with further info).

It took a while for the operators to come up with compliant systems but now after a few years a variety of operators (TV and Internet) offer pornographic content in ways that have been approved by said commission.

The specific situation with Flickr

Flickr at some point made a decision to open shop in Germany. They concluded in that process that they are subject to the above law. They stated in their responses that they made a hard choice between setting up shop while restricting content and not setting up shop. An alternative that apparently did not cross their mind would have been to first develop a system to comply with the legal framework and only then go into Germany.

Setting up shop in Germany serves primarily the aquisition of new customers and the management of the newly merged Yahoo Photo service. Most existing German Flickr customers seem to agree that this action provides little benefit to them.

So Flickr had the choice between more profit for Flickr and full access for German users. By extension the same applies to the situation in Singapore, Hong Kong and Korea.

The attempt to blame German laws is a smokescreen, since Flickr always had the options of staying out of Germany or to comply with German law. The latter is a bit more complicated and includes some uncertainties, but the former was always available to Flickr.

What is the situation now after the dust settled a bit?

I cannot see how any of the measures taken by Flickr make them compliant with the actual law. There are at least three flaws in their technical solution:

  1. Minors can still gain access to the full content via non-DE accounts. Supposedly AT or CH accounts will do the job while even offering full German UI.
  2. User content classification is unreliable since not all users classify properly. At the point where a Flickr team member re-classifies a picture it is too late. At the point where they re-classify Flickr has already been violating the law for some time and lawyers in a criminal lawsuit would present snapshots to prove that.
  3. User content classification relies on the user's perception what is "restricted" and not how the German law defines restricted content.

    As a side note I wasn't aware that the JMStV extended much further than just pornography. But it actually does (see §4 www.artikel5.de/gesetze/jmstv.html#p4). I had also supported the idea that "moderate" level would be safe for Germany but the law is very broad so this is probably not sufficient.

Now what would be a legally compliant solution?

frankly I don't know. Maybe I'll write up some thoughts on that in a later post.

 

22 Comments / add your comment?

NicoleB says:
Mpf.... :S
Thanks for the Info though :)!
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
khugokim says:
this is a very helpful explanation of this matter--thanks!
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
_::_ says:
Well.. WTF cares of F***r , there are so many fresh and innovativ sites to use..... but thanks for the update ;)
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Michaelpro replies:
The interesting part is: When will these sites run into similar problems?
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
manganite replies:
That's a good question. Sooner or later it will have the same problems if it keeps growing...
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
_::_ says:
Of course it will, but it's up to the users to prevent that.....
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Michaelpro replies:
Call me naive, but what kind of influence do the users have over this ?
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Carstenpro replies:
We can move again! And hopefully will...
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
deborahf says:
Ach ist das aber nett.
Halbe Zensur fällt weniger auf?
Und überhaupt... kann mir mal einer sagen warum die dafür fast 9 Tage gebraucht haben?
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink / translate )
MacGuffinpro says:
flickr still have german users?...i don't think so....
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
L’État c’est Moi says:
Finally someone who can explain the whole Flickr thing. Thanks for the read.
Flickr is BLOCKED full stop here in Dubai. Will not be long before the GOV here latch onto this one as well.
Some clever bugger made an add-on to firefox so I can access Flickr. But not sure how to get around it in this site when it goes. And it will go.

Cheers
Louis
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Michaelpro replies:
I haven't followed this Dubai debate for some time. Is that add-on based on Tor (tor.eff.org)? Then it should work for any website.
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Paul Trebor says:
Afaik, the operators of jugendschutz.net stated that flickr is considered to be a "host provider" and therefore has only limited obligations to moderate the contents of its site. Under the telecommunications law, host providers need only comply to removal orders, but do not need to censor content "a priori". So even though flickr stated that it instituted restrictions to comply with german law, german law so far actually doesn't require any of these steps.

www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/91468
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Michaelpro replies:
Thanks, interesting new development.

This still sounds as if Flickr would have to remove pornographic (and other) content or at least be able to block it from Germany if someone complains. At that point they are back to the original problem.
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
L’État c’est Moi says:
Firefox add-on
addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4286
Not sure it will get round and censor problems. But I don't have any here. :O)
Full access.

The block here is not Flickr. It is the local provider/goverment
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Michaelpro replies:
Yes, this won't work with Ipernity. This just redirects the flickr.com accesses to a yahoo.com based address that leads to the same servers.
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Pandarinepro replies:
Are you referring to the add-on, Michael? I have just blogged this, without knowing if it works. Does it?
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Michaelpro replies:
It works only for Flickr. Flickr is accessible through flickr.com but also through some obscure yahoo.com sub-domain. The add-on redirects these addresses.
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Pandarinepro replies:
I think that's what L'Etat meant, Michael.
Maybe the reference to the goverment was misleading and you mistook "block" for "blog"? Only then it makes sense to me ;-)
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
Michaelpro replies:
No, we are talking about several separate issues here:

1. Flickr's database will not show certain content to some of its users (this is what my original post was about).
2. Some governments (Iran, UAE, China and others) have installed devices on all their internet providers that make it impossible to even reach the Flickr Webserver.

Problem 1 is what affects German users.


Louis' solution is a workaround for people in countries that use method 2. It allows those people to see Flickr content through alternative servers that are not (yet) blocked by those governments.

Your blog post
www.ipernity.com/blog/pandarine/12569
mixes these two issues.
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
lubolagnos says:
many thanks for the update, it clarifies the whole thing a lot.
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )
peri22bpro says:
will f**** start sabotageing concurrent sites as this one, using "complaining custommers"? (just a thought)
Posted 2 years ago. ( permalink )

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