This form is secure
Send a message
Search for members
This post is public
...and the feeling of stagnation (or more positive, stabilization) is still there. Lea has today got her contact number 9000, so still something like only 50 new user a day. Number of new pictures has over the last 3 weeks stabilized at 40000 per week. That's not much... The personal experience is almost the same. While in the first weeks activity has always increased , up to 90 visitors a day and is now at somewhere at 30-50 a day. And that in spite of the fact that I have uploaded more pictures as usual in the last days (which has increased daily visitor number on flickr). That's not very motivating if less people are looking at your pictures, while at flickr it's not the case. So I will go back to my usual habit of uploading one or two pictures a day.
And I think it's not only me who feels that way. Most of my contacts are still active on flickr, and their activity over there has increased again in some cases, others are doing almost nothing here or, in the extreme case, have canceled their ipernity account. It's hard to find new, interesting streams here.
I know, many people are very happy with the situation here, they are living in the same 50 people network they had already at flickr, so for them it makes no difference at all. But you cannot build up a community like this in that way. You need growth, you need new customers and you need activity to build up a vital community. I hope that groups will wake up people, will motivate them to post pictures, look at them and comment them. If nothing changes, I fear sooner or later this place fell totally asleep.
And that would be nothing I wanted. I like many features of ipernity, like this blogging function, I like the more personal interaction, and many other things. But the main point for me to join a photo community is to share my pictures and to get some response. I'm realistic enough not to expect the same activity as on flickr, but as things go on here like now, it's not so satisfying.
Daniel Schwabepro says:
It will be interesting to see if and how it will be possible to have a "group experience" that is richer than in Flickr, in an analogous way the personal page features are richer than in Flicrk.
Time will tell; in the meantime, I continue posting some favorite pictures here, although I'm getting almost no feedback at all (tue, I was away for 3 weeks...).
manganite replies:
d3usa says:
kisses!
manganite replies:
Roberto Ballerini - travelingpro says:
--
Seen in a user home page (?)
manganite replies:
Bigoode [Degel] replies:
everything take time when you're compagny is 4 peoples i guess
picsbymac replies:
Uberschnapp says:
manganite replies:
Carstenpro says:
manganite replies:
Serious, that's what I mean, there was much enthusiasm and activity, like you transferring scripts from flickr to ipernity, but all that hat now stopped the last weeks. Other people had organized pseudo groups or contests, some are still doing, but others have stopped or are gone, but not on vacation, they're still active on flickr...
Carstenpro replies:
manganite replies:
Carstenpro replies:
Much more important than pure visits are reactions about the software. And there almost every reaction is rewarding : from a "great" to "hey, I miss this and that" (it shows people are interested) to a good bug report (I just don't like posts "hey dude, it doesn't work" of "I don't need it" ;).
It is true, that a big motivation on writing FOSS is the reaction of users and other developers. For me this doesn't mean numbers. E.g. I have written a small tool to make a few special buttons on my graphics tablet usable on Linux. I do not have many reactions to that on my blog, but discussions with other developers and a few users were very rewarding. One packager even thought about packaging it for the next Debian , but due to a few nice changes in another component, this tool isn't necessary anymore fortunately. And you know what? I won't be sad about this, because a new better solution (I proposed this solution a few times even though I didn't implement this) is available. I am just glad that I could help a few people (and that I did have a solution).
I just want to emphasize, that you clearly cannot compare blog entries about FOSS with a published picture easily, even though this software is for a photo community. The only thing I can say for me, that quality of reaction matters more than numbers...
manganite replies:
So the existence of the tool itself contradicts the statement that numbers are of no interest...
That on the other hand pure numbers have no meaning, is obvious. But statistics have. So I can look at some statistics here and than it is obvious that the whole thing here not growing at all at the moment. And it must grow, cause the ipernity staff is not social help institution, it's a company depending on earning money. And with a few hundred active members you cannot refinance it.
Carstenpro replies:
manganite replies:
Carstenpro replies:
manganite replies:
Patrick says:
manganite replies:
Carstenpro replies:
For the local part of the community I know (and that switched here), a few contacts developed intensely in the "first" life. For me e.g. that means, that I use quite a bit of time on looking at pictures, but commenting is just for "special" thing. But this didn't happen here, this happened on flickr already.
Further I think that many people that switched were not too comfortable with the way flickr worked in regards of community anymore and all that happened was just an "excuse" to look for something new.
What I mean with "how it works on flickr"? Well, you have to be active in commenting, groups, awards, etc. to "be alive" and "interesting".
My pictures shall not be interesting because I comment somewhere, take part in a group, or post awards, but because of the pictures.
Pandarinepro replies:
Further I think that many people that switched were not too comfortable with the way flickr worked in regards of community anymore and all that happened was just an "excuse" to look for something new.
That's exactly why I switched.
I don't even want to be "famous" anymore! After all the hustle and bustle over there, I just want some peace and quiet and have plenty of time to look at people's pictures, without feeling the "need" to comment.
manganite replies:
And the community is in the end made by the people, not by the staff. And most people here moved with there whole community, so in principle nothing should change for them...
Pandarinepro replies:
With "hustle and bustle" I mean people not respecting my wishes not to be invited to nonsense-award-groups anymore, since I never participated in them anyway. Lots of my contacts felt the same, yet we could not carry on decent conversations, because of all those copied and pasted awards that jumped into our faces, every time we checked on comments we had made.
So the personal discussions and conversations died - and yet we could not exclude strangers from commenting, because that would mean that MEANINGFUL comments by strangers couldn't be made anymore, either.
Since about 18 months I and many others were pledging for an "ignore" feature on Flickr, yet that was never implemented. So the COMMUNITY asked for something, yet the developers didn't listen. Which (at least to some extend) proves that a good community NEEDS the developers to exist ;-)
Daniel Schwabepro replies:
In a way, the phenomenon you mentioned ("I comment somewhere, take part in a group, or post awards") has become the social mechanism whereby one calls attention to one's work - I see yours, you see mine. I suspect that this ends up being more important than the actual quality of the pictures, since many people seem to feel they should reciprocate, regardless of quality (at least to some extent).
Unfortunately, I don't really know if there is any alternative to this, other than limiting the circle of interactions to colleagues whose work one admires... but you still have to leave room to meet new people!
manganite replies:
I don't think so, the 5 pictures I posted the last two days got so far 627 views, 95 faves and 72 comments, which I reciprocate not at all, initially I post them all in the utata group and additionally in three or four topic groups. Two entered explore, one on position 18 and one on position 2. What have I done for that? I think nothing special, nothing thousands of other people are not doing, too.
I don't know why people are looking at certain pictures and not at others, but definitely you have not to reciprocate any shit to make people look at your pictures.
Pandarinepro replies:
manganite replies:
manganite replies:
No, not at all... I never was a guy reciprocating comments or faves regularly, I do nor reciprocate contacts very often, I almost nver spend awards, in spite I get quite a lot, I'm not really active in the forum or in group discussions. The only community thing I did was participating actively in comment groups, which I stopped for my new pictures months ago ( I only post some old stuff there, mostly the uninteresting stuff, just for curiosity). I'm a member in lots of groups, but only posting my pictures there, I prefer searches to find pictures and look regularly at the streams of some contacts.
So I'm definitely not the networking guy and community freak, making friends everywhere (I'm much too lazy for that) , but nevertheless since one year everyday more than 1000 people are looking at my stream ( end of this month I think I can say hello to visitor number 500000). That's far away from people like rebekka, but more than average, I think. And even if I'm away for a week or two, nothing significantly changed.
So you have not all be active for any costs to get attention. I think it mainly depends on how interesting are your pictures for the people who came along them, so that they will have a closer look or left a comment or fave behind.
Pandarinepro replies:
Sammy68 says:
Everyone should put a link to their Ipernity stream on their profile at Flickr.
Tell all your friends about this place.
* DON'T delete your Flickr account, use it as a link to here.
manganite replies:
Stefanie Carle - aka se_kwienpro says:
I post a picture because I think it's nice and it's still a way to show some other guys, regardless if family or friends, what my daily life is and how I see the world.
To get professional attention, I guess it's the wrong way posting oucs on flickr or ipernity, send your pictures to an agency, if you want to make a living out of it!
{ME} says:
I don't care about that but I think it's funny because it can't be right. Maybe it's just for motivation that it keeps counting for itself ;-)
manganite replies:
{ME} replies:
manganite replies:
manganite says:
Annjin says:
What I think is important is that this is after all a photo sharing site, with emphasise on sharing. No matter who one prefer to share ones pictures with, if nobody looks at them, why upload them in the first place? Same goes if people don't upload pictures... So I agree that this site need activity to be vital and interesting.
But all the view counting is also somehow a step in the wrong direction too. I would actually prefer that the visit on each picture was hidden, like with votes. And the visit count on the home page I can very well live without...
I think things will change with groups. Even I agree with @Carsten that a picture's interestingness shouldn't be counted in x views, comments or awards, I think it can be a bit hard for those who find the site confusing, to find a way to share their pictures. As it is, ones experience here depends very much on ones own activity but I don't think one can expect everybody to run around this site all the time :). Personally I feel its sometimes difficult to keep up with everything and everybody, because there's no "centre" and one have to click here & there to see what's going on and find new work....
But again, it is the members here who will decide if this place will stay a happy place or become a ghost town... I'll be patient because I really like it here, and flickr is no alternative for me.
manganite replies:
That's the main point here. But some people don't get it, or even say so.
Tom aus Do says:
And what is better, 100 comments by the clipboard or just a few true opinions? Decide yourself!
manganite says:
I totally agree with this, and cause of this I like this place. But nevertheless, I'm asking myself, and others do so too, what's the reason for this feeling of less activity around here and what can be done to change this.
The first weeks I could feel lots of enthusiasm and there was a vivid activity around here. Somehow that has changed, how to bring it back?
Annjin says:
The activity ebbs and flows all the time. Not knowing the reasons for the reduced activity lately, one can just speculate if its just a phase or if, now that the hype is over, what ipernity will be like. Again, I do think it will change when groups are implemented. In the meantime its up to us, the members, to keep up the enthusiasm ;)
manganite replies:
HyperBob says:
I think that the Blog interface is the way to go. It is all a question of education, and a change of mindset. If everyone regarded Ipernity Blogs as equivilent to Flickr Groups everything would be fine.
When caming out of Egypt you always have a hankering for the onions that you lets behind, instead of enjoying the manna that is before you :-)
manganite replies:
Annjin says:
But ... as said I think a diverse group of people are need to keep this place interesting. Some feel comfortable to put their pic in another member's blog entry, others do not. For all kinds of reasons. Those who do not have the time to find the "right" blog to post their pic, don't know those who host the blog nor feel they fit in nor this or that...
Groups allow, among other things, people to just show their pictures to others. With ipernity as it is, is hard to find people outside ones network if one is not really dedicated to that task ... and have the time.
But of course it doesn't' have to be the same type of groups as at the other site... Actually, it would be nice to hear the Team's view on this - how do they see groups would be on this site?
manganite replies:
Steve says:
And I hope that groups aren't implemented like at Flickr. The excess of awards groups ruined my experience...you'd try loading a "popular" image and wait ages for the page to load (2nd class broadband here in Australia).
manganite replies:
Marianne Perdomo Machin says:
Perhaps the Flickr system could be improved in that groups could be in two broad classes: groups proper (photos on a theme, usually self-invited) and award-groups. Then maybe a function could be used to ignore all awards for those who don't want them...
However, that may not be a problem here for a long time. I had a very cozy life on Flickr and most of the comments I got were meaningful, not the pasted award stuff. I did use groups as a kind of bookmark for things I'm interested on (I actually belong to groups I'll never post in), and also to find new people and photos on particular themes.
manganite replies:
*~Amimar~* says:
So I want to ask for how long flickr has been going on? This surely is crucial for them to have a huge crowd at any time of the day posting and interacting, which makes the site extremley dynamic, indeed. Here in Ipernity, I think they have been up for a few months and as it has already been said, the crowd is mainly European, therefore, the activity is necessarily going to be reduced.
For my part I have advertised Ipernity on Flickr in my network and some have come and will atually stay. For which I am delighted. Some others believe in the utopia of "fighting from within", which I am not going to discuss here at any rate.
I am NOT going back to Flickr. I have only a goodbye pic on it.
I boycott where possible American products and when I first payed my membership there I was feeling uncomfortable of going against my beliefs and thoughts, however I thought it was a good site and I wanted to see the positive side of it. Quite hypocritical but, hey, I could not find a good European alternative at the time!!
I think the activity here is now kind of stable with people indeed waiting for the groups but my little unprofessional stream is getting more attention than the first days and I wonder how this new visitors got to my page...!! :)
Now...
Flickr's censorship is to my eyes a political issue and nothing more. Although I have been told that financial issues are also to be considered.
Honestly, when have Americans been really honest???(Oh yeah, when they... landed on ... THE MOON!! :P )
Look at flickr, lots of pornography is actually around. After the censorship began, I had a good look around and I went on in deep search to find pics and text accompanying it and I wondered how a button asking if I was over 18 was a filter good enogh for me to not access what I was about to see. Why on earth are they shouting all that rubbish about censorship when they have big time porn on their site????
FACTS ARE:
1- There is a huge amount of porn there and huge amount of people looking for it. And I guess those searchers are there at anytime trying to quench their thirst for porn and increasing the numbers of views and the traffic on the site. I have not seen any like this here yet.
2- Their profile/pics views counter works like shit(we are in a really free continent here, yeah??). I have noticed now that i have only 1 pic that the counter goes up and down and therefore, I do not understand it. How can there be less views than the previews days?????????
They suck.
3- I agree groups are a nice way of seing a type of pics that you are after, but thenn again, using tags and searching with that tool should be a good way to find what you are after... BUT, on the other hand, groups seem also to work in a way to inflate our egos and show off. Here, instead, you have to go and search for people and their work. See what they do and evaluate. Therefore it seems to me as more of a personal approach, which is enhanced by the latest visitors feature that actually makes you want to go and see who they are and what they have done. At least, it happens to me! The interaction is more on a one to one! And is it not fantastic!!?? Ipernity team should concentrate a bit on the response to comment button or people use effectivey the reply link so a track of the conversation do not become a burden!
Awards groups can be rewarding(again to our egoes) but also quite "slavering" and elitistic you spend your time rewarding those 2 or 3 other you got to reward and you think deserve attention or a look, but it seems to say "fuck off" to those you do not believe are so good. Funny also whe I was deleting my pics and groups that I found that in some of those reward groups I had NO PICS any longer!!! Some group admin may have thought my pics were not good enough for their shiny group and decided to delete pics without a single word. Nice one!!
Human being... What can we expect, huh?? ;)
4- In my last visit to the "Last 7 days interesting" in Flickr, the level of quality and interestingness was plainly appaling not to say ridiculous. Really boring. Do we want that here? Lots of boring stuff uploaded but lots uploaded?? Not me, thanks. I have an eclectic taste for pics. Visit my faves here and there and you will see(same nick here and there). Honestly, I think Flickr has lost lots of good people and it is obvious!
I am staying Manganite, and I encourage all of you to do so too. Just feed your contact. Visit them. Enquire what is happening with them if they have a dormant stream. Call them out!! Have you done so??
I have not paid for my account here yet but intend to do so. I wonder how many of us are in here without paying and Ipernity trying to cope with us all non-payers... What are we waiting for to pay. In my case, I have certain issues to solve to be able to pay here first...! :(
AND...
What are you doing reading such a long a boring post? There are pics to be commented out there and they are waiting for YOU and YOUR activity!!
Manuel Diumenjó Photography replies:
Be patient, manganite. Rome wasn't built in a day.
manganite replies:
manganite replies:
Not necessarily, most of the people I miss here now, are still active on flickr. So this obviously not only vacation problem.
"For my part I have advertised Ipernity on Flickr in my network and some have come and will atually stay."
I for myself put a link to ipernity below every picture I post here, but honestly I don't think that many people are following them.
"I am staying Manganite, and I encourage all of you to do so too. "
Oh, I will certainly do.
"I wonder how many of us are in here without paying and Ipernity trying to cope with us all non-payers... "
But at least we are posting pictures and therefor attracting new people to join or clicking on the google adds... So we are also making money for them, maybe more, than with paying a pro account...
*~Amimar~* replies:
Heya!
I never spoke of the holiday problem... I thought more of time itself. If there are more people from other continent, your stream gets more chances to get viewed all day long from all over the world!!
"I for myself put a link to ipernity below every picture I post here, but honestly I don't think that many people are following them."
I have decided to use mails in there, not posting a link. I do not want f*** to track me down or them to get nasty here. I do not trust them. This site is being a pain in the neck for them, I am sure...
"Oh, I will certainly do. "
Good!! You were one of my first contacts in f***!!
"But at least we are posting pictures and therefor attracting new people to join or clicking on the google adds... So we are also making money for them, maybe more, than with paying a pro account..."
Aaahh!! Never thought of that! So we are being good, really, are we!! ;)
Thanks for the info and reply, Manganite! :)
Bigoode [Degel] says:
we have it
Ipernity is new (blog, videos, etc... as you said)
but Ipernity is young too.... (we already said that i know)
but look
tell me why am i more than 7000 views on my Ipernity album and more than 400 contacts ?
because i try to share, i move, i laugh, i create, i ask other's opinion i'm having fun and
I'm not only talking about MY Stream and MY art !
that's the community main point
SHARE !
so all of you
remind we're here to share our art, yes, but look, i'm not as good as you in photography (i'm even very far from your level, i know that, and it's good to see you to learn !!!!! that's why i stay here)
but even if you're art is better
even if a day is only 24 hours
my stats aren't yours
it's not because of groups, it's not because of quality, it's not because of staff member of Ipernity
look i'm here since may and my number visits is 50 % of Léa !!
tell me why ?
create !
construct !
build !
share !
this is not WAIT THAN THINGS COME ALONE !
work to build this community together ! not with only sharing magnificient pictures
IMHO of course ......
i think i'll have less friends when you'll see this, and many less visits in next days,
cause sometimes i'd better choose advisely my words,
but hey ! it's Bigoode ^_^
but i came back to tell one last thing
don't think i think i'm better, i'm not like that
it's just that this time i just wanted to say, stop waiting and create your own community by acting, and not only viewing so dear friends hope you wont mind too much my opinion about yours
Shine on
PS. please don't block me all ....
or tell me, i'll leave Ipernity ;-s
manganite replies:
But I'm not like you, I haven't this ability, Don't know why, maybe I'm just too lazy. I have only my pictures to show. I don't know if they are good or not, but doesn't matter, I like them to show and I get motivation to go on with that if people are looking at them and leaving nice comments behind.
So everyone has his own motivation and possibilities how he can be part of such a community. And that's important build up an attractive place for many people.
I personally like this place, and it makes me sad that many people have left or are not active anymore. But it doesn't make sense to me just to ignore this, I want to understand why people are leaving, why has something changed in the activity around here. Cause it's important to learn from that how to make things better in future.
It's good to have you here, my friend, more people like you are needed here, that's for sure one thing one can learn looking back at the last weeks here on ipernity.
Bigoode [Degel] replies:
not the clown ;-)
shine on
manganite replies:
Bigoode [Degel] replies:
it's good to hear people remind all of us we're here for fun
shine on dear Manganite, always a pleasure to talk to you
hope to see you one day