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It seems like a community is breaking up – for me this is more of an issue than the censorship that caused it.
Some of my friends have moved here, some may be just dipping a toe, others look to have moved permanently. It seems too soon, flickr have still to reveal the outcome of their behind-the-scenes negotiations.
Clearly whatever action flickr takes will be motivated by commercial sense rather than principle, that should always have been clear. However trendy and street-styled the flickr interface there has always been big business behind the 'Whoa' messages, so a lack of genuine principle in no way leaves me disillusioned – rather I'm just surprised at such a slick operation making this blunder in an age where companies prosper by trumpeting social responsibility and all sorts of non-profit-generating-multicultural greenness.
The US has an appalling image of false morality and deplorable disregard for other cultures – but this is not news. flickr's lack of principle seems the norm for American big business. This episode reveals for everyone flickr as an ugly commercial organisation rather than the community image it sought to portray – but for me this has not been a revelation, I always separated the community feeling I shared with my contacts and the community-styled presentation of the website. And I've always been taken aback by 'I love flickr' style images (and I have to say even more so by the fanaticism found on Vimeo).
The record of American business didn't dissuade me from subscribing to flickr so this latest lack of principle may not be the reason for leaving – I am assuming the behind-the-scenes negotiations will produce an outcome that means no censorship in real terms so that the only permanent casualty is the ‘cool’ image marketed by flickr.
I'm cynical enough to question if there is any site which could be considered ethical. I don't know, maybe the most that we can expect is to have a genuine community on a site that only pretends to care?
For me personally there is an aspect to this which is almost surreal. My German friend Senta and I have always joked and despaired at the British repressed and puerile attitude to sex compared to Germany and the rest of western Europe, and now of all places it is Germany where adult content is being censored.
This whole thing is so fast-paced and disorienting I don’t know what to think, but I’m thinking about it…
striatic says:
but i don't think moving to this site will break up your community. just like it didn't break up the fotologgers who moved to flickr.
Baywhale replies:
atomicity says:
so far i hate the ipernity interface, it's not slick and streamlined in a way that lets me do what i want to do quickly during 30 second breaks from work-- so i really do hope things settle out in a way that's acceptable to everybody and i can stay there without losing track of friends... but for now, it's nice to see so many people here getting their toes wet--it's a reassuring sight, even if I'm not ready to to settle in just yet.
Baywhale replies:
I must say I agree about the ipernity interface. It is only a 'beta' but it's got a long way to go. On the bright side if anything leaves you perplexed all you have to do is click on the help file and all your questions are replaced with a smile… I guarantee it…
withdiamonds replies:
striatic says:
kyuboem says:
I've been keeping an eye on the situation at Flickr from a distance (don't have the time to get too involved these days) and been surprised and saddened, like you, of what seems to be the breakup of a community.
Maybe the biggest mistake that the Flickr team made was the strange and disturbing lack of communication, and, as you point out, missing the deadline they had set for themselves and then not answering the questions that members were dying for answers to. But, call me naïve, I would like to think these guys found themselves in over their heads. They're just photo / computer geeks who could make technological advances and made some cool, fun things possible, but they aren't social visionary leaders, and under pressure from legal counsel and the Y! higher-ups, got scared of saying anything that may or may not be used against them (in the court of law). They're like a lot of common folks, in other words. They have admitted to screwing up, though probably not to the satisfaction of many people, and too late.
So I don't see myself migrating anywhere. Too much hassle. But if a big chunk of the people I've come to know and appreciate at Flickr (like you) aren't there, it just won't be that fun anymore. It'd be rather sad. That's why I signed up on ipernity, just to keep in touch with ex-Flickr contacts and comment, and check out what it's like, not necessarily to use regularly (for now). I'm hoping not too many will leave; it will be harder for me to skip back and forth between two sites to keep tabs on all the people and all of their works. (It's hard enough on one site for me.)
Best,
Kyuboem
Baywhale replies:
You show incredible feeling for the people responsible at flickr. Anyone reading this would think you must be a carer by vocation rather than the criminal extortionist and torturer that I know you to be…
Bay
kyuboem says:
Let's just say I know something of the challenges involved in keeping a community together, a band of no-good criminals though that community might be...
kyuboem says:
I guess I was just trying to imagine what kinds of pressures and temptations would be on me if I were in flickr team's position (what you meant by "you show incredible feeling"). I'm not unfamiliar with those pressures; as well, I'm all too aware of my own fallibility, even the capacity to pretend to care. It's the "Take the log out of your own eye first" principle. So I'm not condoning flickr team's actions; I'm trying to imagine them as human beings. It would seem to me that otherwise, every interaction and every relationship will be burdened down by cynicism and won't be able to bear the weight of "I knew that he/she/they were no good..." (because we all fail at one point or another).
There is a heaviness over the whole flickr experience right now, it seems. I'm feeling a little sapped of energy myself. Hopefully there can be a renewed, albeit more realistic, resurgence of creativity and interaction (I loathe to say the word "community" now) in the near future...
(Saying too much here on your post... gonna shut up now...)
Baywhale replies:
Of course in real life I would be understanding of the pressure on the individuals (especially if someone admits to doing something wrong) but we're not going to see real life on flickr, what we see is a business machine.
I don't feel good about sounding so cynical speaking to someone with an expert understanding of caring – really I know that there is a lot of good in the world!
I'm looking forward to a 'more realistic resurgence of creativity'. Many people will have lost the illusion of flickr-the-company genuinely caring, and at the moment this is all so new that there is 'heaviness' and feelings of disillusionment, but I hope it's only a matter of time before people see this big business aspect as a matter of fact thing and it won't get in the way of using the website as a great means of getting together.
Catherine... says:
Baywhale replies:
withdiamonds says: