Flickr staffs newest blahblah

Perhaps they legally have reason (as *Rosemea explained me), sure they are very stressed, but I absolutely don't love their way of managing the situation and of communicating (but I'm sure they aren't free to do it freely...)

Whatever....but what they say often lacks the respect they wnat others to give to them.

I also wish, they would thinking they are smarter than everyone else.

Plus, the fact of the threat with the ranting and deletion thing in their TOS is just another way to give them an easy excuse to repeat things like the "Rebekka desaster".

*Shakes head* and starts cleaning the flickr house again... ;)

tl;dr
(too long, didn't read, too much information in the forums I'll read them later)

so did they change the filters or what?

no filters are even required by the german law
www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/91468 so legally, they are overreacting

I think, they changed them to moderate now and are working on the rest.

Not that I care anymore ;)

Quite sad that they still do not understand what they have done...

Given the time that passed, and given community has been rather patient, one only could consider the outcome of this waiting rather poor and disappointing. In the end, it's a "less sharp" censorship for Germans only... no words on China or Hong-Kong, no comments on why Flickr refuses to generally abolish censorship and things alike (which, looking at it closely, would be the only option that really should be taken into consideration, given the message of the massive protests on Flickr). Was was that again... Tried. Failed. Learnt...?

Nope, nothing learnt.

And China and the rest can't even protest right, because they don't get through with any pictures or they don't even know or are too used to it.

I'm tired of their crap :(

Yes... that's why I think protesting around there still is important - after all, they should learn it's not "just" about nasty Germans complaining of being unable to see naked skin...

THat´s true - maybe we as the Germans were louder, but overall it is much worse seeing whole countries vanashing from the face of the earth/flickr or at least getting a censored rank.

True :(!

Yeah, and worst by now is, that, people assume that Chinese folks don't complain because "it seems no one is protesting"... :[ Flickr's dead.

Besides that, the fact is that some people are really brain dead.
If someone's access is blocked, HOW CAN they protest???
Doooohhhh......

but it seems no one is protesting


hmmm (oh, I mean: check the caption with that photo)

I'm afraid protesting at Flickr will achieve nothing further. By now, we should take the protest outside of the net, and inform German photographers / internet users on a massive scale. For example, creating posters that can be stuffed into mailboxes and posted at pinboards in supermarkets / at workplaces. Maybe even an ad campaign, like the Firefox people did.

As far as I can follow the threads, comments and loads more, they are trying to settle things at flickr. I'm patient - for now.

I learned that one of my contacts has been blocked out from flickr (he is from Italy), after he got into things w/ another flickr member. It was regarding some photo that was posted, depicting Che Guevarra. But still looking into that matter, don't want to jump into conclusions. It's getting w e i r d @flickr.

Stewart, good thing to do.
I didn't believe everyone either that claimed that their account was deleted without any notice, but during the times it happened, they could not all have lied.
Some of them I DID and still do believe....

wise flickr user atomcity wrote today:

“I don’t understand how flickr could have gone along with entering into a local german setting knowing that this would be the situation (when at least from an outsiders perspective, its seems like staying out of germany would have been a perfectly fine scenario from the point of view of german users, and probably from a business point of view considering the PR damage done by this whole debacle) The lack of foresight and willingness to go into such a compromised situation just doesn’t make sense, and the lack of responses explaining the rationale for the current situation doesn’t make sense.”

I personally believe flickr staff are not in control. They are being forced to go along with head office things while trying desperately to put a good face on it. This is a natural evolution in the business world, predictable, and I am done with it.

"and I am done with it"

Exactly :)!

Ach ja, du hast ja auch schon davon berichtet -- Mensch, bist du schnell... Schläftst du eigentlich nie? ;-)

Doch, aber ich bin Euch eine Stunde voraus und muss Morgens um halb 4 / 4 schon aus der Heia um dem Menne Fruehstueck zu machen ;)

Ach ja, du wohnst ja ganz wo anders... Schräg. Aber um so besser, dass man überhaupt so miteinander in Kontakt kommt.

Ja, das ist das Schoene am www :D

Nobody thought that flickr were greedy "money bags that just want to censor Germans".
But everybody now thinks that yahoo/flickr are stupid multinationals who did neither understand local laws nor care about respect, rights and customers. And that's apparently the truth.

Indeed....!

„... who did neither understand local laws nor care about respect, rights and customers“

das trifft es ganz gut.

...jetzt bin ich gespannt wer von hier wieder zurückgeht und wieviele ipernity accounts von ihren eigentümern vergessen werden... :(

ich glaube nicht, dass es viele sein werden... egal was sie jetzt noch reparieren, das kommunikationsdesaster ist passiert und wird nicht vergessen.

Von den Deutschen bestimmt nicht.

Soll ich ehrlich sein...nein...ich behalt's fuer mich,...., evtl. kannst Du Dir vorstellen, was ich sagen will.....

???
ne, ich steh auf dem schlauch....

Nett ausgedrueckt: Es muss jeder selber wissen.
Und jeder wird seine Gruende haben.
Nachvollziehen koennen muss ich es ja nicht unbedingt.

Aber Gruende gibt es sicherlich genuegend. Nicht jedem haengt die Politik auf flickr so zum Hals raus, wie mir. Und selbst ich werde fuer eine Weile noch den kostenlosen account dort behalten, alleine schon, weil doch noch recht viele Leute dort sind.
Ob der Kontakt bestehen bleiben wird, who knows....

Das war die freundliche Variante, die erste waere mal wieder typisch "ich" gewesen. Erst schreiben, dann nachdenken und sich entschuldigen. Hey, ich koennte bei flickr arbeiten mit der Methode, ... ;)

...ach so, so hatte ich das gar nicht gemeint, jeder darf natürlich frei entscheiden (na ja, flickr ist nicht ganz der meinung, aber das thema kennen wir ja)
ich würde mir persönlich nichts dabei denken, wenn jemand sich doch entscheidet nicht hier zu bleiben. Ich habe mein flickr account ja auch noch und es steht noch offen, was ich daraus mache.
die frage war eher die, ob es genau so eine massenwanderung zurück zu flickr geben wird, wie es sie hergegeben hat...

Achso. Glaube ich an sich nicht. Der Fusstritt war dann doch reichlich heftig.

ach du lieber himmel - man darf wohl nicht mal nicht aufpassen.
jetzt muss ich wohl rausfinden gehen, ob da künftig alles wieder wie gehabt läuft. obwohl... nein, eigentlich will ich das nicht wirklich wissen, denn die entscheidung steht: der account ist eingeschläfert und bleibt es...

For me there is no way back. though I miss some of my contacts (perhaps they will follow soon) I can't stand censr any more. 'Verbrannte Erde' as Photomotion said, und ich sage: ''zu viel Porzellan zerschlagen'. There is too much destroyed and can't be repaired. Toooooo late.
I like it here, I like the guestbook and the blog and perhaps I will become a pro-member some day.

Flickr "knickt ein" ...
www.flickr.com/groups/ipernity/discuss/72157600417492860/

Danke Marco!

Hier der link direkt zur heise Meldung

WOWSIE - Finally one off the staff members tells us protesters in plain words that we might as well pack our bags:

www.flickr.com/help/forum/43626/page4/#reply242170

Nice.

that post alone motivates me to never go back to flickr! So it is not only a Yahoo! thing... :-(

Aha...:

BenJ - flickr staff
Right now, in the US and elsehwere, we block "restricted" content from those of a certain age (I'm not going to say the exact age because I'm not 100% positive what it is -- probably the usual magic number). It's in the FAQ.

But! As stated above: We are continuing to actively evaluate various technical options, including exploring whether there is a way we can verify users' age which would meet the very high standards set by German law, and which would offer additional choice to our members in Germany.

And him again:

Well. Sort of. Actually it's not my job. I'm a developer. All the staff who participate here in the forums do so when we have free time. It's 1AM here in California -- not exactly my normal working hours. :-)

But yah. I think we could have been better at communicating over the last week. Half of the team has been on the other side of the planet all week -- that's created some difficulties.

Here

Nice one ;)

And a long one from Mr. Stewart - fresh out of the press:

[This is a little long, but I'm trying to answer a few of the more general questions and tie a few things together.]

Those of you who are asking for the internal legal arguments, letters from regulators, citations of articles in the criminal code, etc., are bound to be disappointed. This is just not going to happen.

Even if it were a reasonable thing for us to publish all of that (and it's not, for a long list of reasons) I'm also pretty sure it wouldn't help. It'd just lead to more second-guessing and armchair lawyering ("well, if Bob had already said that in his email on 6/14 at 17:23, how come Suzy asked again the next day?" or "hey! - there is no transcript of the 6:30am PST conference call from the 13th - how can we know what really happened?", etc.)

I can say that the *legal* decisions here are not mine personally: I'm not sitting in my office in California guessing at German laws, but working with local counsel in our German office (in-house and external) and elsewhere in the EU, along with German management and policy teams. This has nothing to do with anyone's religious feelings or personal prudishness and it also is not done out of ignorance of the law.

In one sense, since I'm responsible for Flickr and am in charge of how it actually operates, I could do the cowboy thing, ignore legal advice or requests from in-country management and change the filters to work however I think they should (still have to convince the team here to actual change code, but that's another story).

But what I want are good long term solutions -- that's not going to happen if we (internally) can't work together. And, after I've spent tens of hours with my best possible arguments, I have to respect what the legal and policy groups are telling me and why.

As I said earlier, it actually isn't as simple as it looks. I think most people in my shoes, with all the same knowledge that I had, would have made most of the same choices. Yes, I knew that it'd be a bit of a disaster, but I was choosing from a menu of different disasters, and I think we ended up with the smallest one.

Having said that there were a few things that we did (and myself specifically) that were totally wrong and for which I apologize: chief among them was not announcing this in advance (we were hoping we weren't going to have to) and not posting right away in the forums (this was a legal command -- as opposed to suggestion -- but since we eventually ended up saying more or less what we wanted to say in the first place, I should have just posted anyway).

So, I'm sorry for all the extra annoyance and confusion caused by the small amounts of communication. And I'm more sorry for those people who feel like "their" Flickr was harmed/destroyed/disappeated etc. in the last week. On that last topic, I'm writing another post now.

They did hope often recently that they could "keep things under the carpet".

it think this communication desaster of flickr showed pretty well: they really don't care about their (german) customers - the sex-appeal of flickr is gone and this damage cannot be repaired - if a company gets too big and becomes sort of a monopoly, there is always a great danger of turning towards this kind of behavior - the way they partially drew back and how they communicated this are sure indications of a disease, which i cannot happily live with

The more of this garbage we get, the more I feel our decisions were justified and correct...

Yes, I do feel the same. It's good to have left...

Fucked once, never again. No trust anymore. Finito.

Oh, by the way:

More about the TOS of Ipernity

As far as I understand, Ipernity is allowed use your content as long as it refers back to your account here on Ipernity. Right?

Mh, as far as I understand the TOS or actually it was the member guidelines, the linking back thing is for the times you use pictures that are hosted here somewhere else.
Let me check your link....

5.9 By submitting, posting or displaying Content on or through the Service, you grant Ipernity a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to reproduce, adapt, distribute and publish such Content through the Service, including RSS or other content feeds offered the Service, and other Ipernity services.

5.10 In addition, by submitting, posting or displaying Content which is intended to be available to the general public, you grant Ipernity a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free license to reproduce, adapt, distribute and publish such Content for the purpose of displaying, distributing and promoting Ipernity services.

Mh, if they use it to promote their service, ok with me, if they make money out of it, I'm not sure what to think, uff.....

I'll check it out...